Du verwendest einen veralteten Browser. Es ist möglich, dass diese oder andere Websites nicht korrekt angezeigt werden. Du solltest ein Upgrade durchführen oder einen alternativen Browser verwenden.
Hi!
Happy newyear! I have occasionally been lurking the forum for years, as my German is not very good I have never made an account but after an issue I faced with the aforementioned PSU and a slightly alarming second phone call I had with the RMA rep at caseking I thought to make a post about it here too after a German friend advised me to do so.
I bought this PSU around mid September at what I thought at the time was a good price, while waiting for Raptor Lake refresh to come out. So the PSU stayed sealed in the box for quite some time. I finally finished buying my computer parts around December 20! (Yes I know, I waited for a good price on a Z790 Formula).
Long story short, I finally decided to build the PC (14900K, RTX4090 Master, Z790 Formula, G,skill 7200CL34, 7000D, 990Pro, LF2 420)
I plug the PSU to the wall socket, with the switch on the back at position 0 and BOOM! Electrics down.. On Xmas day. We had to stay in the dark and the heating off for 3/4 hours until my father managed to get it all back and working.
Top notch installation of electrics at home with IOT and everything top top quality.
Upon looking online for an answer I found out that there is an issue with the PSU at position 0 for many people.
My serial number is in the range of the people who have/had similar issue with their (position 0).
Electrician charged us 300 euros for emergency visit (Xmas) and to replace a fuse and have a thorough test/check all over the 3 floor house.
I am not seeking compensation from either BeQuiet or Caseking (not their fault).
But I really want a refund on the PSU and not a replacement.
I am a BeQuiet customer for over 15 years. I can understand that a defect product can happen to anyone.
I would normally accept a replacement but here we are not talking about an one-off case,
but a whole batch if not batches. People have received 2 replacements with the same issue.
I do not have the time to go back and forth with replacements and a non working 5500eu system.
Neither I want to risk my system or electrics in the house again.
Thankfully I had not plugged anything on the PSU when this happened.
Caseking guys on the phone (Ced*** and Mar***) were helpful but mentioned that a refund might
not be possible. I have been sent a defect product, that seems to be a whole batch of them and
many other people complaining about the same issue.
Not only it is not a user-error but sending me a replacement which will take a whole month as
I am not living in Germany is also inexcusable.
I offered Caseking to order a new PSU from them (not a dark power pro 13) even though it is more
expensive at their website than somewhere else I can get it from as a good will move.
They still said that the RMA boss is very strict with refunds.
If you do not refund a customer for SUCH CASE!! in what other case a person can get a refund then?
Defective product in the first seconds, never been opened until the day it was plugged (with proof, as I took a component group pic a couple of days before and the PSU is still sealed in its box), caused damage at home and luckily it did not cause any damage to my components as I was smart enough to not plug anything on it yet.
BeQuiet advised me to buy another PSU if I do not want a replacement and that Caseking should refund me the Dark Power Pro 13 I bought from them.
Thank you for your time reading this! I did not use google translate as I was not sure it would translate the text properly.
But you can reply in German, as I do understand most of it.
VG
Zuletzt bearbeitet:
Wenn Du diese Anzeige nicht sehen willst, registriere Dich und/oder logge Dich ein.
Well, actually it is BeQuiet's fault, also from a legal point of view. This is a case of consequential damage due to a possible defect or fault in a product not manufactured by us. In Germany, the Product Liability Act (ProdHaftG) is responsible for any resulting claims for damages. All claims for damages must be addressed directly to the product manufacturer (in this case BeQuiet) and not to the retailer who sold the product. As the injured party, the burden of proof lies on you and thus you must prove that there was a defect in the product and that this is the cause of the damage incurred. Finally, §11 ProdHaftG also stipulates a deductible of 500 euros for the injured party in every case.
After the 14-day withdrawal period, you cannot get an immediate refund in case of normal RMA procedure. The legally mandated liability for material defects of 24 months is prescribed by §§ 434 ff. of the German Civil Code (BGB) in accordance with EU directives (EU vendor's warranty). Pursuant to § 439 (Section 1) of the German Civil Code (BGB), the handling of claims can only be provided in the form of a new delivery (replacement) or by remedying the defect (repair), whereby we may also reject a method selected by the customer pursuant to § 439 (Section 4) of the German Civil Code (BGB) due to disproportionately high costs.
As long as there is no official statement from the manufacturer confirming a general issue, a few Reddit threads are nothing but anecdotal evidence showing that you can find anything if you search for it. It doesn't confirm that there is a serial defect.
- Out of goodwill in specific individual situations that cannot be narrowed down in advance and which are always decided only in the moment of processing. It depends on many factors including the source of the product and its manufacturer and whether an item has been used or not.
- A withdrawal from the purchase within the material defects warranty would only be possible in accordance with § 440 BGB after two failed attempts to remedy the defect.
- Or if subsequent performance is deemed impossible right away, which is not the case here. In such a theoretical event of a withdrawal from the purchase any benefits derived from the use of the goods would have to be returned in accordance with § 346 BGB and § 347 BGB. This approach was confirmed by a ruling of the Federal Court of Justice on 16 September 2009 (VIII ZR 243/08).
Mentioned by who? If it's not the manufacturer, it's irrelevant. Again, there has to be official confirmation by the manufacturer about alleged faulty batches. Then the faulty unit has to be replaced with one from a non-faulty batch.
Regarding the 14 days return, as you know our shall I call it community buys parts but does not open them
until we get all our components ready for our build.
It's something customers know in advance and have to plan accordingly. Sometimes products are DoA and that's life. Yes, that means that a customer needs to buy a replacement or simply wait.
No, there is no 6-month period whatsoever. Only 14-days withdrawal and 12 months reversal of the burden of proof regarding RMA claims being present at the time of passage of risk.
I always take such pics after a faulty guitar pedal issue I had 15 years ago, to which Boss/Roland apologized for, replaced it and sent me lots of goodies as an apology.
The issue here is this. Lots of people mentioned that even the replacement units they received are faulty with the same exact issue. And that some are dying even after days of use.
Again, I cannot tell you if this might be a way to go, because I still don't know who you are. *If* we can confirm a fault, maybe even via the manufacturer checking the item, we may be able to give you a credit note, but we cannot decide that in advance.
We do not even know if your PSU is really faulty, since we can only say that after verification. In the theoretical event of a material defect, we as a vendor are first entitled to inspect the defective item (Federal Court of Justice ruling of 19.12.2012 - Ref. VIII ZR 96/12 as well as Federal Court of Justice ruling of 1.7.2015 - Ref. VIII ZR 226/14) in order to verify the validity of a claim itself in accordance with the material defects liability and to then carry out our right of supplementary performance in the most economical way possible.
BeQuiet advised me to request a refund from you and that I already purchased another PSU (I have not yet but I will tomorow), so I have no need for this unit anymore.
Sure, if you can sell massively overpriced technology from the 70s and 80s, it's easy to be very customer-friendly. But PC hardware is a low-margin field of commerce.
In view of the high complexity of error verification and repairs in microelectronics, an appropriate and reasonable period for end customers is up to 8 weeks.
Or we just receive a reduced credit note, or no fault can be detected at all, or the claim is rejected because your story isn't true (happens all the time). We just don't know which is why we're not going to decide such things in advance.
To be honest I do not understand your complains related to CK. Why should they take back your power supply after several months and provide you with a full refund? It is not there fault that it took you a lot of time to install and try the new BQ power supply.
You should have known this. I also do not understand why you are posting that there must be something wrong with the general design of the power supply based on some few "Reddit" posts and some additional ones in this forum. I bought a BQ 1300 Pro from CK nearly at the same time like you and I have absolutely no issues with blown fuses. Because of your post I did an Inet search and could not find other/ additional comments which would proof that there is a general issues. I own the same power supply bought by CK and nearly at the same time like you. Blown fuses can have many different root causes which might not be power supply related. Therefore I would be a little bit carefully in blaming BQ and/ or CK.
In case if you want a detailed root cause analysis by BQ you should sent back the power supply. This might also help other customers and would be the usual approach. In my opinion It makes no sense to just blame CK and/ or BQ based on ~ 3 Reddit posts of users with similar issues without allowing for a detailed root cause analysis. There is also the possibility to get a very fast replacement directly from BQ. I doubt that there is a general issue with the power supply. Faulty/DoA product can never be avoided + as stated blown fuses can have many different root causes.
To be honest I do not understand your complains related to CK. Why should they take back your power supply after several months and provide you with a full refund? It is not there fault that it took you a lot of time to install and try the new BQ power supply.
You should have known this. I also do not understand why you are posting that there must be something wrong with the general design of the power supply based on some few "Reddit" posts and some additional ones in this forum. I bought a BQ 1300 Pro from CK nearly at the same time like you and I have absolutely no issues with blown fuses. Because of your post I did an Inet search and could not find other/ additional comments which would proof that there is a general issues. I own the same power supply bought by CK and nearly at the same time like you. Blown fuses can have many different root causes which might not be power supply related. Therefore I would be a little bit carefully in blaming BQ and/ or CK.
In case if you want a detailed root cause analysis by BQ you should sent back the power supply. This might also help other customers and would be the usual approach. In my opinion It makes no sense to just blame CK and/ or BQ based on ~ 3 Reddit posts of users with similar issues without allowing for a detailed root cause analysis. There is also the possibility to get a very fast replacement directly from BQ. I doubt that there is a general issue with the power supply. Faulty/DoA product can never be avoided + as stated blown fuses can have many different root causes.
Karl! I do not blame anyone regarding the product. Defects can happen. We can all agree to this. I just want a resolution to this that fits my needs the best way possible as I am not at fault here.
And definitely I do not want to be pushed around between manufacturer and vendor for which I have high respect and have been their customer for 15 years almost. I also offered to buy a new PSU from CK so they are not losing my custom, they still get a profit and I have a working machine earlier. Some companies even push you towards that direction in many cases and I do not mind that. But I should get a refund for the defect. It is not rocket science is it?
I challenge you to switch your PSU to 0 position and leave it like that for a few hours. Go for it! Do it and go to sleep. I can already see your hands trembling, and your heart rate increasing. Do it! Come on.
There are at least 40 Serial numbers in 3/4 posts on reddit, youtube and here now that have this EXACT issue. BeQuiet IS AWARE OF THIS ISSUE!! And I am not the only CK customer who had this.
BeQuiet and CWT the company that manufactures these PSUs are aware of the issue and claim that the replacements should be working fine but people complain that their replacements had issues too.
Some not straight away but after a few days or for some hours of use. I cannot afford to wait to play this game at this moment in time. If I had another working machine where I am for the time being I may have agreed to this. But it is not convenient neither I can take the risk.
You seem to be totally unaware of how things work with returns. It is the buyer who dictates what is suitable for them regarding times for replacements/refund/repairs. There is an EU law regarding this.
Vendors can play dumb all they want to enforce their way but if the customer wants to lawyer up they give in. It is just that not many customers want to deal with that and we should never ever get to that point. (In fact I am so time restrained I do not even want to spend time typing this, I may make more money on the total amount of time I will spend for the whole procedure than get a deserved refund and my coffers are not as big as CKs or BeQuiet's).
I paid money. I received a dud that many other people received too. They got dud replacements too. *(Have you switched your PSU to position 0 on the back yet and let the bulk capacitors empty?)
I do not know your needs, but my computer needs are serious. I do not want a PC for entertainment, but for work, my university research, and my music recording side hustle. But even if it was for 100% browsing or gaming it should not be different from a customer perspective only that for me every day of downtime it causes a huge stress to my schedule and a hole in my pocket. (Have you switched your PSU to 0? Why not? Do it!).
So far we have the reddit post, 3 people here that noticed my comment and added their experience, people on twitter, there are comments on various youtbe videos and some have been removed, there are 3 people on a local website, and a few others on a forum I was told about but I could not find the thread. 40 known cases are not a little number!! People got replacements that still had the problem.
Also an insider of the industry and PSU specialist (I do not want to mention his name but some of you can guess who that might be) got in contact both with BeQuiet and CWT and they are aware of the issue!
If your PSU is working perfectly, fine!! I am very happy for you! I wanted mine to be working too so I can finally set up my 6k PC. (But IS IT working fine? Did you try to switch to 0 position? Why not? Afraid of the dark?).
In fact I advise you to NOT SWITCH TO 0 POSITION!! Especially if you have no backup system, 6 freelance contracts and 2 assignments (one local) on LLM by the end of the month.
Heck even if you were planning to spend your weekend grinding on Diablo 4 or WOW or whatever is popular over there.
If your PSU really works 101% fine! But do you wanna switch with mine? I will take yours you take mine? Then I come and play the smart person about your PSU not working and accuse you that you might have done something wrong which I find really insulting to be honest.
PSU out of the box, AC cable fully seated, Switch on 0 position, AC cable connected to the wall socket as instructed by the manual. ---> DARKNESS! Breaker off, blown *(B16 breaker that is in an office and 3D printing room where everything has been working flawlessly with many computers in the past, example a friend's PC with a 1600W PSU with 2x 4090 during a summer weekend research marathon.) The prong of the AC cable that goes on the wall socket blown! Have you seen this before? I have not!
You are talking to a person that is using a personal computer from the Spectrum 128k+ and Atari1040ST era, has been programming from the age of 8 in the late 80s and has built over 400 systems over the years for personal use, for friends, for the workplace, for music studios all working perfectly fine without any issues. I have never opened a bad product apart from a bad motherboard one time and that was in the UK and Scan there replaced it with a collection service before I even sent my mate's back because they were aware of an issue a model had back then. In fact they opened the box of the new motherboard made sure it is 100% ok and then did a collection/delivery free of charge, sent some merch as well in the box. That is how you do business. And I am sure they would have offered a refund if it was requested instead due to the customer's convenience.
Not by accusing a customer that they may be lying and saying that it happens ALL THE TIME with customers! It is not needed. Do some people do this? Unfortunately some may do. But does it really happen ALL THE TIME? I doubt it unless you are dealing with scalpers/bratty teens/or just bad people. In my e-commerce experience I have never dealt with a dishonest customer. With angry ones? A few times but it was always all good in the end.
Mike!
I do not want us to antagonize each other. You are proffiecient with customer rights etc. I get it but... hmm And I think it was a bad idea to bring this here. I am a big fan of BeQuiet products. I have personally spent 6/7k on their stuff and I have made them a lot of money through the years too. I was sent a return label with a German address by mistake, so I have not sent my PSU back yet but the really helpful reklamation guys on the phone have sent me the right one now and I will send the PSU back first thing on Monday. Sadly.. I cannot wait for a replacement. I offered to buy a new PSU from you before you even consider my case. Because I thought you would accept it, I think it is fair (I can find that new PSU somewhere else cheaper by 50eu and the shipping is 15eu less too but I want to honor my custom with you and build a good relationship as I have relocated and I chose your website for my PC purchases, I 'd rather pay a little bit more money and have a good customer experience but you gotta do your part too for this).
If BeQuiet who know they have this issue, and I am sure it is way more people than the ones that we have found so far online, wanna play credit games with you...
Mike! How is that the customers' fault in any way? You admitted that you just wanna pass the pain to the customer. Why? You guys are a big company, BeQuiet is also a big company, you are one of their biggest resellers. And you argue over 10/20 PSUs? I think this must be a cultural thing... a power/rules thing or something like that.
Regarding OVERPRICED 70s tech in the MI, or biiiig margins I cannot but shake my head.
First of all, MI does not only sell brass instruments or violins (damn 400 year tech) guitars etc but also tech that is not 70s at all.
What you called overpriced is relevant. Overpriced compared to what? A 6000 euros Gibson guitar that has certain characteristics will cost 6000eu next year and the year after, and in cases of special instruments they are considered investment by many and their price will increase over time. Usually instruments, even pedals and outboard gear keep 70% of the value as second hand goods for all their lifetime and due to inflation they keep 70% of the current price, some go rare etc etc etc.
Can you say the same about an RTX3090 that devalues every single month and some people might not even want to touch soon or the environmental cost of unused electrical appliances?
Margins on most things are the same in both industries, they range from 5% to 15% with the exception of accessories be it cables, strings, cleaning products, plectrums, bows etc etc.
But def not overpriced... looking at you RTX4000 series. MSRP 1600 bucks (already overpriced).. but us the EU people how the heck we pay 2500eu upwards for a decent AIB model nowadays?
I mentioned the 6 months a few times because of the proof of burden which you are aware of.
You said "In view of the high complexity of error verification and repairs in microelectronics, an appropriate and reasonable period for end customers is up to 8 weeks." Wrong (It also takes very little time)! The buyer dictates what is appropriate and reasonable and conventient that is why they can request a refund in specific cases. If you look at the europa.eu website regarding consumer guarantees it is all laid out there. It is known that a buyer can request a refund only if repair/replacement would be inconvenient for the customer as it is in my case (time constraints) also I offered I am mentioning it again to order a NEW PSU from YOU in order to catch up on time lost during the downtime. In that regard you are lucky I think.
Anyway. It was a mistake bringing this here. I should have sent you a PM maybe but I just wanted other people to chip in in case they had an issue with theirs too. And on the PSU's thread two people have the same issue I have.
I am sure we will sort this out in a fair manner. I am ordering a new PSU on Monday morning as I have to. BeQuiet advised me also to do so, and they said you will deal with them. That they are aware of the issue.
If I were you I would take the customers' side and make big noise out of it as there should be big noise about it. 40+known serials with the same issue is not a small number, Even 10 is not small.
Considering the importance of the PSU and the possible negative effects a defect product can have on other parts, maybe you should open all the PSU boxes of these 2 models and test them before you send them out.
It might be a tiny cultural difference regarding how we show respect to each other and how we receive negative or snide comments but we are a big European family and we will get through this together, I am sure in a manner that everyone is happy in the end. I want to be your customer, I want BeQuiet to continue to release my favorite products, I want you to expand further with CK... but guys.. Think about me too, right? Between the three of us I am the small guy here and the one who should be treated the most fair possible.
My S/N for the record is S/N: 331L3160000575
PS.
Karl please please do not put the switch to position 0!!! If you want to test it, please remove the cables from the PSU par the AC cable. Allow the PSU to get "empty" for a few hours. Switch to 0 and plug to a wall socket.
But do it if you have a back up and a replacement for your breaker/fuse.
I have personally spoken to other people who had this issue and they have also done nothing wrong.
My friend who bought his PSU in early July does not want to test it with the switch on 0 position. His is supposedly working fine too. But he is not willing to touch the switch after my experience.
I cannot believe that a rep moaned at a customer about their dealings with the manufacturer?
We might be a big family in this industry I admit it, but how is that a customer's fault if BeQuiet firstly released a batch in the wild with an issue and then is giving less than maybe it should to a vendor?
Why the sympathy should be with the million profit seller, the big manufacturer... and not be with the poor customer who did nothing wrong and thankfully did not plug any pc part on the PSU otherwise now the customer would also have the scare that the build might have gotten damaged too. I am not mentioning the Dark Xmas experience and the emergency electrician bill as that was a timing coincidence, it could have happened during any other non special day in the morning. I just mentioned it because it was not pleasant.
Anyway! The Reddit post have more people adding their experience the last 2 days, and on Jay2cents video (*please watch one of his latest videos and show your support to the guy as he may be battling something serious health wise, hopefully not) people are a bit disgruntled too.
I was never so excited unpacking a PSU in my life having seen the pics and vids online, and never went wow after lifting the box lid before for one. No funny business here and I hope I will never hear snide accusations again.
LG
Sv0g
Typed way too much to the point of TL/DR
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
Date I received my cpu and a few nvme ssds 21st Dec! PSU still in box.
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
Obligatory group pics! No funny comments again please.
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
A previous 9900k system with BeQuiet 900 rev2 case and a PRO 850W PSU (and a DarkRockPro4 not shown) during installation! Zero issues! Amazing machine!
It still kicks ass years later at a friend's.
Depending on which area you live in, the usual copper cables are not used for the power supply in the house. We had the problem with a container from Poland. The wires in it were too thin, so the current draw from the heater melted them. We could blame the heater, but it's the wires - they don't have the thickness that is standard in Germany.
I was in France for a short vacation in the countryside. We were told not to shower and cook at the same time, otherwise the fuse would blow.
This discussion is honest useless, there is nothing proven etc. I guess here are some people trolling around because they do not get a refund.
If they realy have any issues they have to contact the Manufacturer for Warranty.
Usully they have the right in such a case to do analysis and replace the faulty PSU.
Why are unnecessary posts always published and blasphemed about manufacturers or dealers without informing them in any way?
You can certainly discuss the situation with others after a rejected RMA/repair, but without ever having opened a case is just blah blah blah... I cry.
Reddit has become just a shitload of fake posts. To proove "but its says on Reddit..." yes it says nothing just a few guys crying around not getting a refund for which reason ever.
You failed to notice that the electrics in the house are top quality. And the wire thickness is the appropriate one. 2,5 and 4! No thin wires here. All line breakers here are rated 16/20/40A, mostly B a few C. It is a house with 3-Phase Power. Many PC machines have been used in this house before with no issues ever some with 2000W PSUs. Refrain from accusations or double guessing please.
There is a known issue that BeQuiet and the manufacturer in China are aware of.
People on reddit and anywhere else are not making a case or cry about refunds but about the actual issue.
Downtime costs money. Thus why I am making a case to fit my needs to my convenience and not wanting to be a tester and play pong with replacements for something I paid for and not for a product I am paid for to test.
I do not know what is so hard to understand.
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
I have already initiated an RMA procedure 9 days or so ago.
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
People are not trolling at all. They got replacements at that point in time with serials close to theirs.
Some got refunded after the third failure.
Why would they troll? It is a huge inconvenience?
You imply that people buy 6000 euros PC parts and want them to sit there doing nothing while they enjoy trolling a famous PSU brand for their own amusement?
My dearest. Please...
I hope it is the feierabendbier to blame 😁
Let me ask you this. I get it that the severity is not the same. But if it was not a PSU but a passenger plane.. what do you think it would happen if 40 of these birds fell off the sky? Just some food for thought.
Why do you even bother to write such a long post only to delete it again? I already explained why we are doing what we're doing in my earlier posts. Since you deleted your post, I will stop now.
You want me to feel sorry for caseking getting a reduced credit or replacement from BeQuiet? That is the reason? Come on fella..
Also because I want to get in contact with Manuel tomorrow.
I alreayd bought a Seasonic Prime TX-1300W ATX3.0 PSU FROM YOU!!!! To replace the unit that you should not be selling since it has issues for months and you should not even be replacing.
Many people had their replacements with the same issue.
Do you understand the severeity of this?
I also paid more money to get the Seasonic from you (it was 20euros cheaper elsewhere) and had to pay 25euros shipping again (the other store was charging me 7euros for shipping).
The unit works flawlessly until now, touch wood!
I did this to honor my initial custom to you and it was only fair. I did not have to do that. But I did. Because of all you said before that you would be in loss etc, I was quite honorable from my side.
You can refund me.. but instead today you sent out a replacement when I told you I do not want a replacement
1) I REPLACED A DOA PRODUCT WITH SOMETHING ELSE = NO USE FOR THE ITEM! = REFUND!
2) There is not trust in the product. (not fit for purpose, I cannot risk a 5.5k system and other electrics in the house or a possible fire)
3) I am leaving my machine to do work while I am not in the house and I cannot trust this PSU (possible fire hazard) = NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE
4) I can ask for a refund if I want to and since I have been nice to order something else from you I do not see any reason why you are so petty to issue me this refund
(for which refund, I also need to give you another bank card to issue the refund to from the 20th of February onwards as my bank has changed to a different card issuer)
5) What the dealings are between you and BeQuiet has absolutely NOTHING to do with the customers.
You never explained to me why you are doing this... And if you want to mention you and BeQuiet pulling each other's hair over a PSU it is absolutely ridiculous to shaft a customer like that for something that has nothing to do with them.
BeQuiet AGAIN on their socials advised me to ask for a refund from caseking.
Mindfactory has offered refunds to friends in similar situations when they bought something else from them to replace DOA items and apologised. And I always had trouble free dealings with them for years.
All I got was antagonizing me here and causing me severe distress.
No one understand your why s (minus people who would jump to simp or even possible fake profiles). No one on their right mind could take your side in this.
But everyone understands MY why s
And I am sure you understand them too.
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
Having a DOA item is already a bad experience. Having downtime, having to adapt schedules, is already stressful. You show zero understanding and empathy to this. Fantastic.
Having to deal with an RMA is wasting valuable time for many people. Yet here we are, it can happen, right?
Now instead of making this easy for me... you antagonize me, you give me piss poor reasons, we are not vibing as mates here, you are here to do a job and make my life easy.
We are having a customer / corporation relationship and you went down the road of making this a conversation between two disagreeing neighbors,
This is the level we are at at the moment.
There should be nothing to disagree here.
DOA item = REFUND! Not replacement. ( I asked for it)
Damages caused by said item = payment! ( I did not ask for it)
Distress caused to customer = payment! ( I did not ask for it)
The laws not only protect corporations, they protect customers too. And you are aware of them.
I am repeating this
Learn more about your after sales responsibilities, returns, legal guarantees, commercial warranties, and customer claims.
europa.eu
A replacement is inconvenient to me for many reasons as stated above!
Will you pay for my belongings or a new house and cars in the garage if my place catches fire?
You have not paid for the electrician's bill have you? I did.
Therefore I asked for a full refund of the product.
Read this again and again and again, then put yourself in my shoes!!
Unfortunate the German law says that the retail has the right at least 2x to repair or replace before refund.
While it might be unconvinient for you they are not doing anything wrong.
We are not talking about trousers, socks, or shoes here.
We are talking about high voltages that already have caused problems.
How can you say they are not doing anything wrong?
EVERYTHING THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG!
Still listing the item for sale instead of sending all their units back to BeQuiet to be tested and even take the item out of their website.
Repalcements have been showing the same issue up to the last week!!!
EVERY SINGLE THING from both companies is wrong here.
This has not even gotten the magnitute it deserves and this is because youtube influencers and websites will lose ad-money at least some had the courage to take the unit off their recommended list.
A refund is the least they could offer.. German law or not.
I am not talking about a pair of socks here even if the socks would cost 409 euros.
They ask me to plug this thing in my house after all I have been through, after knowinng that people who got replacements still have the same issue.
After I bought another PSU from THEM in good will.
This is horrible customer service and everything done wrong.
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
And I will have to correct you on this!!
The seller does not decide what they want hiding behind a few rules.
It is the customer that decides what is convenient to them according to EU Law. Not the seller.
Especially in our case that I already bought another PSU from them it means I have no use for this anymore.
Every single thing is to my advantage here.
I hate Karen-ing more than anything but here I am getting shafted big time.
Your false purchase is not their fault. A product especially if bought from another region is not designed to compensate a malfunctioning wired infrastructure.
If you have any issues with bequiet, you should bother the manufacturer not the retailer if you think they produce "garbage" in your opinion.
If the retail changed it and you trying it you still can start to complain if it would malfunctioning again etc.
But nevertheless they have the right to proof especial if it's above a certain value why that was the case etc.
Because of a lot of scammy customers in the past retailer are more cautious and react more fulfilling they rights rather then goodwill because of exploiting.
I totally agree with you about scammy customers and I am all for companies being cautious etc. No one likes scumbags.
BeQuiet themselves advised me to buy another PSU and request a refund from caseking. They even messaged me a few days ago saying
"We hope this gets solved quickly and you get your refund ASAP"
BeQuiet is not in any way producing garbage. Not at all! But these units do have issues.
Making mistakes or defects is human. It can happen.
It is how you address these that matters.
What do you mean by right of proof by the way? I did not demand a refund to be issued before they receive the unit. That would be ridiculous.
I ask for a refund because it is highly invonvenient and DANGEROUS to use this product again.
What if my replacement is faulty again and I have to send it back again, and them to want to send another one back.
I do not live in Germany. If I did this would have been resolved. Shipping to here takes about 1.5 to 2.5 weeks. And shipping it back even longer.
Then they need time to investigate, to send the item to BeQuiet etc etc etc.
Each single replaecement would take from 1,5 month the shortest to 2.5 months.
You are telling someone that received a DOA item to wait for 2.5 months?
Let's be real here. We are talking about a very known issue with this unit.
And there are even more posts on youtbe videos, local forums, smaller reddit posts that people have problems with this unit and the replacement they received.
It does not take 5 days to sort out a replacement in my case it takes ages.
Buying another PSU was the only possible solution here and a refund to be issued to me once they finish investigating the item with bequiet.
I did absolutely nothing wrong here neither I demand something utterly crazy.
I do not know what you mean by false purchase.. but I paid both PSUs with very real money and I am out of 409eu right now!
Your false purchase is not their fault. A product especially if bought from another region is not designed to compensate a malfunctioning wired infrastructure.
Do missing 409 euros look like trolling to you? Or my emergency electrician's bill?
Read the thread in full, as you talking about malfunctioning wired infrastructure in another region is on the verge of racism.
Who the heck told you that there is malfunctioning wired inftrastructure? Who the heck told you that BeQuiet products are only sold to be used in Germany?
I have described my house wired infrastructure (breakers, wiring everything). There is extremely high chance you would feel ashamed of your electrics in your own house after looking at the electrics in mine.
And because the electrics here are of very high quality and there are sensitive devices installed in the house, as well as a plethora of IOT I am not feeling comfortable with trusting this unit.
If I knew that this unit had this issue I would have not bought it, so why would I trust it now?
This is why I bought another one. If the unit did not have these issues en masse and their replacements the same (because when you know your product has issues you make sure you dont send others out with the same one right? .. this is the EPITOME of EXTREME trolling) I would have normally accepted a replacement but even then due to time constraints and the time it takes to sort this out I would have still asked caseking to buy something else ahead of their investigation and then they could refund me the item if anything I would have bought the BeQuiet again.
I think at this point we are hitting a cultural wall problem and it makes me extremely sad to be treated like this.
I am the one being trolled hard here.
Some people have a lot of work to put on certain aspects of their lives.
If you want to count on that go for it. But technical specification is unfortunately objective and not subjective.
An electric device is not racial it belongs to standards.
It is not its fault that in your region wires do not belong known standards.
European electrical standards hold the same value as American electrical standards. However, both have slight differences that must be known to ensure proper safety.
www.creativesafetysupply.com
Every device works because it relies on standards and there cant be an exception. If its not true, why don't give Bequiet the chance to analyze this Issue?
A car is also basically made for asphalt roads without pits or holes. You can run it, but you might expect damage on your car.
There are other specialized vehicles for that.
The manufacturer also assumes a standard there and cannot be held responsible for the shortcomings of a region or a buyer.
The victim card has been used too often when technical and objective arguments fail.
If you want to count on that go for it. But technical specification is unfortunately objective and not subjective.
An electric device is not racial it belongs to standards.
It is not its fault that in your region wires do not belong known standards.
European electrical standards hold the same value as American electrical standards. However, both have slight differences that must be known to ensure proper safety.
www.creativesafetysupply.com
Every device works because it relies on standards and there cant be an exception. If its not true, why don't give Bequiet the chance to analyze this Issue?
A car is also basically made for asphalt roads without pits or holes. You can run it, but you might expect damage on your car.
There are other specialized vehicles for that.
The manufacturer also assumes a standard there and cannot be held responsible for the shortcomings of a region or a buyer.
The victim card has been used too often when technical and objective arguments fail.
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
The member states are allowed to transpose this into their own national law without being disadvantaged.
A 1:1 replacement for a product is not discrimination, even a voucher would not be.
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
If you think you have the right, why don't bother to ask a Lawyer for assistance?
BeQuiet already had my PSU with them and they declared it a defect. What are you mumbling about standards?
My old PSU has already been with Caseking and BeQuiet.
There is an issue with some of these units in quite large numbers. Stop please!
I am quite objective much like the standards.
"If you think you have the right, why don't bother to ask a Lawyer for assistance?"
Because I believe that people can find solutions between themselves.
My issue is not with BeQuiet but with caseking not refunding me when I already bought another PSU from them.
It is not a cheap PSU either. So from that and the one that I replaced it with you can tell I am strict with my electrics in general. I do not do compromises in such things.
And this is why I like BeQuiet they do not compromise either. Companies can make mistakes too.
Retailers that do not refund customers when they should is the issue here.
Here!!!
Have some proper wiring standards with your bier! <3
So Caseking is sending me another one of those with the same issue probably! Get my point now ?
Datenschutzhinweis für Youtube
An dieser Stelle möchten wir Ihnen ein Youtube-Video zeigen. Ihre Daten zu schützen, liegt uns aber am Herzen: Youtube setzt durch das Einbinden und Abspielen Cookies auf ihrem Rechner, mit welchen sie eventuell getracked werden können. Wenn Sie dies zulassen möchten, klicken Sie einfach auf den Play-Button. Das Video wird anschließend geladen und danach abgespielt.
Youtube Videos ab jetzt direkt anzeigen
Read the comments on this too!
Datenschutzhinweis für Youtube
An dieser Stelle möchten wir Ihnen ein Youtube-Video zeigen. Ihre Daten zu schützen, liegt uns aber am Herzen: Youtube setzt durch das Einbinden und Abspielen Cookies auf ihrem Rechner, mit welchen sie eventuell getracked werden können. Wenn Sie dies zulassen möchten, klicken Sie einfach auf den Play-Button. Das Video wird anschließend geladen und danach abgespielt.
Youtube Videos ab jetzt direkt anzeigen
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
Datenschutzhinweis für Youtube
An dieser Stelle möchten wir Ihnen ein Youtube-Video zeigen. Ihre Daten zu schützen, liegt uns aber am Herzen: Youtube setzt durch das Einbinden und Abspielen Cookies auf ihrem Rechner, mit welchen sie eventuell getracked werden können. Wenn Sie dies zulassen möchten, klicken Sie einfach auf den Play-Button. Das Video wird anschließend geladen und danach abgespielt.
I get your point don't get me wrong, but as long there is no recall from manufacturer the retailer is continuing the business as usual.
When they simply rewind you the money back for a defective part they wont get it replaced by the Manufacturer / their retails either.
In your case the Retail has the right to delegate the case to the manufacturer, but not by them self its something the customer has to do:
(1) In such case as a defect in a product causes a person's death, injury to his or her body or damage to his or her health, or damage to an item of property, the producer of the product has an obligation to compensate the injured person for the resulting damage. In case of damage to an item of property, this only applies if the damage was caused to an item of property other than the defective product and this other item of property is of a type ordinarily intended for private use or consumption und was used by the injured person mainly for his or her own private use or consumption.
(2) The producer's liability obligation is excluded if
1. the producer did not put the product into circulation,
2. under the circumstances it can be assumed that the defect which caused the damage did not exist at the time when the producer put the product into circulation,
3. the product was neither manufactured by the producer for sale or any other form of distribution for economic purpose nor manufactured or distributed by the producer in the course of his or her professional activity,
4. the defect is due to compliance of the product with mandatory regulations at the time when the producer put the product into circulation or
5. the state of scientific and technical knowledge at the time when the producer put the product into circulation was not such as to enable the defect to be discovered.
(3) The obligation to pay damages of the producer of a component part is also excluded if the defect is attributable to the design of the product in which the component has been fitted or to the instructions given by the manufacturer of the product. Sentence 1 applies accordingly to the producer of a raw material.
(4) The injured person bears the burden of proving the defect, the damage and the causal relationship between defect and damage. If it is disputed whether the obligation to pay compensation is excluded under subsection (2) or (3), the producer bears the burden of proof.
Well we are at the point where they sent me a replacement (it is on its way) Therefore the manufacturer has either credited them or sent them a replacement.
Therefore the retailer can refund me as I have already bougth another PSU from them.
Instead they try to get rid of ATX3.0 PSUs that people avoid buying since they wait for ATX3.1 to come out.
Just because they can hide behind a 2 replacement law.. it does not mean it is acceptable or right.
And we are not talking about a pair of sneakers (talking about sneakers, Nike will refund you years after your purchase if you are not happy with your pair of shoes), we are not talking about socks, pants, a deko item that just sits on a table.
We are talking about deadly voltages. But if you mention this, they will answer then the manufacturer is to blame!!
Beitrag automatisch zusammengeführt:
From a Polish redditor earlier on the famous reddit post
"
I bought Be Quiet in polish shop called Morele and there I could return it by saying that it failed to comply with the contract of purchase.
„non-compliance of the goods with the contract” "
Nice customer service! He returned and got something else.
Then why aren't you telling me your customer or order number so that I can start actually having a look at your RMA case? Instead, you are writing novels and I can only answer with the general legal situation as I already did in my initial posts. The legal situation is clear. Some reddit posts are meaningless as they are nothing but anecdotes saying nothing about an actual RMA rate of a product. Threads about certain issues naturally attract people with similar problems due to search algorithms, so they always have to be taken with a grain of salt. The fact that a customer purchased a different product or that something is "inconvenient" is simply not relevant if there is no right to withdraw from a purchase. Without knowing who you are I cannot delve deeper into the specific case and therefore cannot check if a different way of handling this RMA out of goodwill is possible or not.
Well, I can show empathy if warranted, but it gets more and more difficult in this case and again, it is not my job to be a grief counsellor or psychotherapist. Also, I cannot help you if I don't know who you are.
So you claim, but apart from one anecdotal reddit thread and a single YouTuber there is no hard evidence that there is an actual fault with those PSUs. If you look for issues with products you will always find some. There is no confirmation from the manufacturer. We have sold a lot of them and apart from you there are *zero* RMA cases like this.
And we probably told you that you cannot get a refund due to the absence of a legal basis for it. (Again, I cannot look the communication elsewhere without knowing who you are.)
A withdrawal from the purchase within the material defects warranty would only be possible in accordance with § 440 BGB after two failed attempts to remedy the defect.
Please stop with the ludicrous conspiracy theories just because you didn't get what you want. Yes, there are actual people who simply do not agree with you and your demands.
There is nothing about "inconvenience" to be found in German law. Some customers are "inconvenienced" by the fact that buying something costs money. EU directives always require an implementation into each country's national law which usually results in slight variations.
According to the statutory liability for material defects in German law, subsequent performance is only provided for in the form of a new delivery or by remedying the defect (repair) in accordance with § 439 para. 1 BGB (German Civil Code). According to § 439 para. 4 BGB (German Civil Code) we can also choose to exercise our right to reject the method selected by the customer due to disproportionately high costs. And again: A withdrawal from the purchase (refund) within the material defects warranty would only be possible in accordance with § 440 BGB (German Civil Code) after two failed attempts to remedy the defect, which is not the case here. It is even unclear if the defect has even been confirmed, but I cannot check that since I don't know who you are.
Of course they advise you to get a refund from somebody else, but that's none of our concern as long as they don't also give us a refund or as long as they don't officially confirm a problem with that PSU or that series of PSUs. Again, I cannot check any of that since I don't know who you are.
The Product Liability Act (ProdHaftG) is responsible for any claims for damages due to a possible defect or fault in the product. All claims for damages must be addressed directly to the product manufacturer (be quiet!), provided that the manufacturer has a branch or its registered office in the EU, and not to the vendor who sold the product. be quiet! = Listan GmbH is located here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4ezJHV5RrJnAjcop8
As the injured party, you have the burden of proof and must provide hard evidence that there is a defect in the product *and* that this is the cause of the damage incurred. Finally, § 11 ProdHaftG also stipulates a deductible (self payment) of 500 euros for the injured party in every case.
Warum tauscht ihr das NT nicht einfach gegen eine Gutschrift, Be Quiet liefert Euch eh ein neues NT dafür.
Anstatt des ganzen Juristen-Gewäsch, was ja auch Arbeitszeit und den AG somit Geld kostet.
NTs in dieser Preisregion sind Nischenprodukte.
Wenn eine signifikant höhere Anzahl an Problem-Meldungen als üblich innerhalb eines vergleichsweise kurzen Zeitraums in den Foren auftaucht, ist auch häufig was im Busch.
Das zeigt einfach die Erfahrung mit ähnlich gelagerten Fällen.
Ob jetzt nur eine oder mehrere Chargen von der Problematik betroffen sind ist für die Endabnehmer natürlich nicht so einfach nachvollziehbar.
Ich muss dazu erst herausfinden, was Listan zu diesem Fall gesagt hat, was ich aber nicht kann, solange ich nicht weiß, welcher RMA-Fall das hier überhaupt ist. Wenn das alles, was hier behauptet wird, tatsächlich stimmt, sollte es durchaus eine Gutschrift geben, weshalb es mich wundert, dass wir keine Gutschrift ausstellen, was mich wiederum an den Behauptungen zweifeln lässt. Ob irgendein Fehler vorliegt, kann ich nicht ergründen, weil der Kunde sich nicht zu erkennen gibt.
Wenn eine signifikant höhere Anzahl an Problem-Meldungen als üblich innerhalb eines vergleichsweise kurzen Zeitraums in den Foren auftaucht, ist auch häufig was im Busch.
Das zeigt einfach die Erfahrung mit ähnlich gelagerten Fällen.
Wollte eigentlich nichts mehr zum Thema schreiben. Die Seitenlangen Beiträge vom TS ohne auf Fragen (Kundennummer etc.) von Mike einzugehen, empfinde ich mittlerweile (Achtung persönlich) als Bashing. Hat auch ewig gedauert das NT überhaupt an CK zurück zu schicken. Hauptsache Seitenlang Beschwerdebeiträge schreiben.
Verstehe vor Allem nicht warum der TS es bis jetzt noch nicht geschafft hat, Mike die Kunden- oder Bestellnummer zu schicken. Mike ist hier persönlich extrem engagiert und versucht zu helfen wo es Ihm möglich ist. Wie soll er ohne diese Infos unterstützen? Wenn ich der TS wäre hätte ich diese Infos schon lange geschickt und bin mir auch sicher, dass Mike mir geholfen hätte, eine kulante Lösung zu finden. Mike ist für mich der Hauptgrund warum ich PC HW nur bei CK bestelle.
Sorry, für mich ist bei der ganzen Geschichte des TS etwas faul. Generell kann die Ursache an der Hauselektroinstallation liegen oder einfach ein defektes NT sein. Habe mein BQ 1300Pro auch zu einer ähnlichen Zeit bei CK gekauft. Mein BQ hat dieses Problem definitiv nicht. Auf ein paar Posts, speziell bei Reddit, gebe ich nichts. So viele Vollpfosten/ "Wichtigmacher" haben ich selten in einem Forum erlebt.
Gibt wie Mike schreibt auch keine ähnliche RMA Fälle bei CK. Ich würde mir dennoch das BQ definitiv nicht mehr kaufen. Hat andere (Lüfter) Gründe und ist ein anderes Thema was auch nichts mit CK zu tun at. Das reklamierte Problem hat mein NT definitiv nicht. Wenn ich an einer konstruktiven Kulanzlösung mit einem Händler interessiert wäre, würde ich mich definitiv anders verhalten.
Mike hätte mit Sicherheit geholfen, wenn er die notwendigen Infos erhalten hätte. Das ist bis heute nicht passiert bzw. hat es auch Monate gedauert bis der TS das NT überhaupt zurück gesendet hat. Wie geschrieben, wenn ich eine Kulanzlösung möchte, würde ich mich definitiv anders verhalten. An ein generelles BQ Problem glaube ich aus "Selbsterfahrung" nicht. CK entwickelt und produziert auch keine NT. Daher verstehe ich auch die ganzen Beiträge im CK Bereicht nicht. Die Beschwerden betreffen BQ und nicht CK. Wie soll Mike ohne Infos bzgl. Bestellnummer etc. helfen? Es geht um Kulanz und jeder Händler hat das Recht auf Ausbesserungsversuche.
Sorry, das Ganze ist für mich mittlerweile Bashing und kotzt mich an. Verstehe auch nicht waum der TS nicht einen direkten Kontakt mit BQ gesucht hat. Werben ja mit raschem Vorabtausch etc. bzw. entwickeln und produzieren das NT und nicht CK. Vermute (weiss es nicht) dass BQ auch in Polen etc. für ein dem Preis entsprechendes Service sorgt. Das NT kostet ja auch Länge mal Breite.
Sich im CK Bereich über eventuelle BQ Probleme (Reddit Beiträge und Selbsterfahrung) auszulassen, verstehe ich nicht. CK ist mit Sicherheit nicht für mutmaßliche BQ Q-Probleme verantwortlich. Sorry, wie soll Mike/ CK bei der Art von Kommunkation Verständnis haben, bzw. eine kulante Lösung finden?
Mike, bitte korrigiere mich falls falsch. Ich hätte Mike und ohne Seitenlange Beiträge, die eigentlich BQ und nicht CK betreffen, folgendes per PN geschrieben und bin mir sicher eine akzeptable Lösung erhalten zu haben: "Bei meinem BQ NT fliegen leider die Sicherungen, meine HW ist folgende, Kundennumer/ Bestellnummer, bin mir nicht sicher ob es an meiner Hauselektroinstallation liegt oder nicht oder ob das NT defekt ist, OK wenn Ihr mir ein anderes BQ schickt, lieber wäre mir wenn ich ein anderes NT bestellen könnte etc. Kannst Du mir da helfen?
Das setzt jedoch die Bestätigung voraus, dass das Netzteil tatsächlich ursächlich für die Probleme ist und nicht marode Infrastruktur oder anderweitiges Selbstverschulden.
