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Dass der Gesetzgeber innerhalb des ersten Jahres nach Kauf davon ausgeht dass auftretende Mängel bereits beim Gefahrenübergang vorhanden bzw. angelegt war dürfte ja geläufig sein.
Da der Käufer im Ausland sitzt und bei versuchter Nachbesserung auch für CK höhere Kosten entstehen, macht es weitaus mehr Sinn dem Wunsch des Kunden zu entsprechen und den Kaufpreis zu erstatten.
Zumal er sich ja eh schon ein neues anderes NT bei CK gekauft hat, das wohl ohne Probleme läuft.
Glaube nicht dass es sich für CK oder Mike auszahlt sich hier auf juristische Scharmützel einzulassen, keine Identifikation ? > Thread closed bis die Infos geliefert wurden.
Spart Zeit und schont die Nerven aller Beteiligten.
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Alles klar, meine Meinung habe ich geschrieben. Mir geht es weniger um die Gesetzgebung, die ist mir bekannt, der TS hat auch ein Austausch BQ erhalten, und CK hats entsprechend der GWL Regeln gehandelt, sondern um die Art der Kommunikation.
So you claim, but apart from one anecdotal reddit thread and a single YouTuber there is no hard evidence that there is an actual fault with those PSUs. If you look for issues with products you will always find some. There is no confirmation from the manufacturer. We have sold a lot of them and apart from you there are *zero* RMA cases like this.
Well.. First of all you fell in my trap about the fake profiles as you used the same phrase earlier in this thread.
Also you call posts online anecdotal when they are not anecdotal at all. And you call videos online one-offs etc etc.
You know what?
You declared the unit defect, BeQuiet did too when they received it. So that's that!
I do not give my information (RMA numbers) to random people online or posting them in a public forum, it is a forum after all.
Talk to Marcel in the office he knows all about it.
Can you prove that you have zero RMAs for this unit? For a start you do not have zero.. you have at least one which is mine.
Let's take this from the beginning.
I paid 409eu (what is considered to be a fairly high price) for a PSU!
PSU was defect on arrival. PSU caused trouble with the electrics. It cost me money for emergency electrician but I am not even seeking compensation for this.
I am trying to find a way so both of us are happy which is something YOU should be doing. But I have to babysit a corporation crying about reduced credit from the manufacturer
I order another PSU from you even though your price on it is higher than in another shop and I pay for shipping again.
I ask you nicely after also explaining to you my situation to show some understanding and respect.
I did everything I could to make it the best for both of us.
You on the other hand made profit from TWO VERY EXPENSIVE power supplies from me.
And you try to get rid of stock and pass the problem to BeQuiet down the line.
You can cry all you want.. this is the worst customer service I have ever encountered in 24 years shopping online.
You try to get rid of a PSU and still pocket the profit even if BeQuiet would refund me in the end... you will still make profit and they will have to pay from their pocket
that margin. So in this case you are tricking both me and them. Me by holding my money over technicalities when I did everything from my part to make life easy for both of us. And BeQuiet would have to refund me the money on the invoice, while they probably sold you that PSU for about half of that money.
Stick with your laws and lose a customer.
Alternate and Mindfactory will have my business from now on, as I never ever had a single problem with them even on some unfortunate returns.
You lose much more than be helpful towards a customer that honored his initial purchase by buying AGAIN from you even though I did not have to.
That was my good will..
You do not know what that means. Maybe you should stop selling internationally if you cannot act "internationally".
Shops are not rated over sunny days, but how they deal with issues in the rainy ones.
If I wanted to cost you money out of spite at this point I would have asked for an RMA over the hoodie in my last order, that does not fit me even though the size is XXL, and make you pay for shipping for this.
But I find this ridiculous and gave it to a friend instead.
It should be common knowledge that the legislator assumes within the first year after purchase that defects that occur were already present or created at the time of the transfer of risk.
Since the buyer is located abroad and higher costs are also incurred for CK in the event of an attempt to rectify the problem, it makes much more sense to comply with the customer's request and refund the purchase price.
Especially since he has already bought a new NT from CK anyway, which probably runs without problems.
Don't think it's worth it for CK or Mike to get involved in legal skirmishes here, no identification ? > thread closed until the info was delivered.
Saves time and protects the nerves of everyone involved.emu
Then why aren't you telling me your customer or order number so that I can start actually having a look at your RMA case? Instead, you are writing novels and I can only answer with the general legal situation as I already did in my initial posts. The legal situation is clear. Some reddit posts are meaningless as they are nothing but anecdotes saying nothing about an actual RMA rate of a product. Threads about certain issues naturally attract people with similar problems due to search algorithms, so they always have to be taken with a grain of salt. The fact that a customer purchased a different product or that something is "inconvenient" is simply not relevant if there is no right to withdraw from a purchase. Without knowing who you are I cannot delve deeper into the specific case and therefore cannot check if a different way of handling this RMA out of goodwill is possible or not.
You need to read the European Law regarding what is "to the customer's convenience". Do not just use the EU when it suits you (selling abroad etc) But be aware of other rules too.
You cannot expect someone, knowing the long times for sending the items back and forth, to stay without a working system for 1.5/2 months!
You are a tech selling company, you are not selling socks, panties, unties. Different customers, different needs, different everything.
Downtime is the worst nightmare ever. You should be adapting to such need. And in my case with the long waiting on sending items back and forth even more.
If you do not issue a refund in this special situation then when do you do it?
If there was no known problem with these PSUs I would have done the same thing by ordering another DPPro13 again... while waiting for you to refund me the defect one.
Many shops offer this solution to their customers.
Das setzt jedoch die Bestätigung voraus, dass das Netzteil tatsächlich ursächlich für die Probleme ist und nicht marode Infrastruktur oder anderweitiges Selbstverschulden.
Dass der Gesetzgeber innerhalb des ersten Jahres nach Kauf davon ausgeht dass auftretende Mängel bereits beim Gefahrenübergang vorhanden bzw. angelegt war dürfte ja geläufig sein.
Es ist nur eine Beweislastumkehr, kein Beweis, was bedeutet, dass jeder Händler auch einfach nachweisen und dokumentieren kann, dass ein Gerät mangelfrei ist, um die Vermutung zu widerlegen. Das passiert jeden Tag mehrfach.
Da der Käufer im Ausland sitzt und bei versuchter Nachbesserung auch für CK höhere Kosten entstehen, macht es weitaus mehr Sinn dem Wunsch des Kunden zu entsprechen und den Kaufpreis zu erstatten.
Is that really so hard to understand? It's a handful of individual occurrences of a few people. It's not a statistic to work with because of the tiny amount of data. Maybe read up on the definition of 'anecdotal'?
You could have obviously sent me a PM any time or an e-mail at "mike@caseking.de". You could've asked if there is another way to identify yourself. Besides, nobody can do anything with your customer or order number. Theoretically I am also obligated to verify your identify due to the GDPR.
Yeah that's why I think I know now who you are, but only because you apparently called again today and it took a while. I could've investigated this already more than a month ago. I am under the impression that you preferred to intentionally create some drama here instead.
So you invalidate the fact that this is really upseting for me, wastes my time, causes extremely high inconvenience in so many ways.. and you still have not apologised ONCE!
I am not "invalidating" anything and the fact that this upsets you in an extreme way is rather obvious, but it is not our holy duty to remedy every perceived 'inconvenience' no matter the cost. Also, why would we apologise? For what? That we replaced a supposedly faulty PSU as the law mandates? We didn't manufacture that product. And we cannot always fulfil special wishes.
Please don't be absurd. This is very strong Karen energy I am sensing here. There are obviously limits to what any company can and will do to satisfy customers.
Why did you even expect anything else? If you order from very far away, it's not suddenly the vendor's burden to spend a lot of money to magically teleport items back and forth. If I order something from Australia, I know that everything will take a very long time.
I don't know anything about this "special situation", since I had no opportunity to actually check it. As I said, could've been a mistake. Maybe I could've resolved it all a month ago already...
Are you? It doesn't look like that and I think that's no longer even possible. I definitely tried by repeatedly asking you about who you are. And now, we are going to check this issue early next week, probably on Monday.
This doesn't even make sense. We are treating every customer identically and we certainly won't adjust anything just because somebody knowingly decided to purchase from another country. It's a given that shipping processes *will* take longer.
So if you know I called today why are you trolling?
There is zero Karening here.
We can ask 100 people and you will find 10 simpletons to side with you and 90 people who will easily side with me.
And this is not all the information available that is aired here.
You still for example have not answered me what Listan offered you in my case. And you do know my case depsite what you said earlier today but you still hiding that information.
I do not understand what do you mean when you say "supposedly" faulty PSU?? You are still denying the fault? When you know about my case again..
I think this should go to Toni but unlike you, I have sympathy for people and how their immediate circle can be affected.
You mentioned in the past that there maybe fake profiles online posting bad things about products. Search above in this thread unless you edited your comment. What conspiracy theories.
The latest conspiracy theory in this thread is you calling the defect ... supposedly faulty when BeQuiet called it defective themselves!
Mike! Please dude. Get some sleep or if you can go out and have some night time fun in Berlin.
You never ever address customers this way. No matter what.
I asked for a favor, I was nice and polite, caseking was positive about refunding me and seemed to be understanding to my situation. Up to that point everything was good.
Upon calling again to request for a label as the first one was not the right one I was told "oh by the way there are not high chances that you will get a refund but we put a note that you wish for one".
I did not even bitch. Maybe my messages were lengthy and explaining things again and again (And still see? You keep denying that the PSU is faulty and you blame the house wiring.. you are trolling hard at this point, and certain people still talk about wiring and blablablba).
I did not want to have any problems with caseking. I was co-operating and after you said you guys do not want to lose money blabla in good will (although it is not my problem at all what you guys do with BeQuiet) I offered and bought a second PSU from you.
So far you made profit from two PSUs from me and you want BeQuiet to refund me if they want... so they have to even cover the profit you made.
Is there some beef between CK and BQ or something? Because for 13/14 years I had nothing but the best experience with their products and their customer service, and I never had any dealings with you in the past. So there is no reason to be treated in this horrible manner from you.
Just leave it.
Especially after saying "it is just a PSU it is not the end of the world.. " How many days you work for 409 euros buddy? 3days? So for your standards 3 days of your time is nothing right?
It is a rather pricey item for a PSU too I think and I bougth an even pricier one without having any crazy demands that you send me a replacement first or something like that.
*(we both know that many people make such requests) (I bought the replacement without questions or demands)
If you want to be petty and have the last word do whatever you like and answer.
At least you know that my case is legit as we were on the phone today, and when the phone was answered the greeting was
"I know why you called! We have sent you a replacement" Not even a hello, nothing.
I hope this also does not put stress on you.
We have exhausted the subject. At the end of the day I feel like I have done nothing wrong in this. And you think you did well here and shafting a customer and losing one as well.
Also I did not want to post this thread on the forum, but quite a few people insisted I do this so that I put pressure on you.
You tried to be assertive to your stance in the most idiotic way in my eyes. Sometimes by being stubborn makes you lose.
I was not stubborn, I was accomodating and tried the best for both of us.
It is the first time I saw Karen-ing from the customer service side
At the end of the day it is your loss not mine.
People from my circle say you scammed me over a PSU but I will still not lose that money.
You lost a fair few future purchases from us though and at least (2maybe3)x RTX4080Super cards just this month or whenever they would be back in stock alone.
So alles klar!
I hope if we ever bump on this forum on some other thread again it will be fun and not you trying to trigger a response because at this point I think you laugh at my expense.
LG
PS. The biggest mistake I made, is not writing here in a formal way, and instead all I did was rush-typing during the whole thread, while having a break from other things.
Where i come from we invite the duellists to a beer after things have been settled and both parties have shown that they can act with a minimum amount of decorum.
And that gentleman you did!
In a very informative and articulate manner i might add.
Even the parts that slipped from dialouge to skirmish.
Well done for that!
You both have gained my respect and are owed a beer next time i see you🍻
This doesn't even make sense. We are treating every customer identically and we certainly won't adjust anything just because somebody knowingly decided to purchase from another country. It's a given that shipping processes *will* take longer.
🚩🚩🚩🚩^^^
There you go. You do not understand the nature of the business you are in. You just admitted it.
You totally disregard customer convenience and care.
You are in tech, selling tools! Not socks and sneakers.
Where i come from we invite the duellists to a beer after things have been settled and both parties have shown that they can act with a minimum amount of decorum.
And that gentleman you did!
In a very informative and articulate manner i might add.
Even the parts that slipped from dialouge to skirmish.
Well done for that!
You both have gained my respect and are owed a beer next time i see you🍻
I would happily have a beer with Mike. Or 20!
Then I might accidentally need to answer my phone, walk away and tell him it is ok dude "you paid for 20 extra pints of lager it is not the end of the world" /joking
Seriously, I already wrote that I *just* today finally found out who you are, after work I might add. It was basically a coincidence and only happened because of your lengthy phone call today. I already wrote that we are going to have a look at your case internally early next week, probably on Monday.
You mentioned in the past that there maybe fake profiles online posting bad things about products. Search above in this thread unless you edited your comment. What conspiracy theories.
In the past? I have no idea what you mean and in this forum everyone can see which post is edited in the lower right corner of a post, like in every single one of yours.
No, but I do not know, yet, if it really was faulty or if it was just exchanged without bothering to test it. We certainly cannot and do not test PSUs for good reasons. I cannot know if BeQuiet! called it defective since I have nothing but your assertions to go on.
No offense, but your biggest mistake is that you are not fully reading Mikes posts, instead you are posting enormous walls of text.
Caseking is based in Germany and by german law they do not have to offer you a refund after one (1) defect - its that easy! No need to send any links as they will not change this fact.
Of course they *could* offer you a refund (it is their choice), but to check if this is possible Mike needs to know who you are --> he needs your customer- or ordernumber. Asking you for this information was his very first response on this thread:
If not done yet, please provide him with this information on this thread, via private message or via mail. This is the only way he can help you and check *if* a refund is possible.
Yes, hardware is expensive nowadys, but rushing out posts without providing essential informations will not help to solve your problem.
Edit, Mikes post was showing up seconds before mine, looks like he is already one step ahead.
No offense, but your biggest mistake is that you are not fully reading Mikes posts, instead you are posting enormous walls of text.
Caseking is based in Germany and by german law they do not have to offer you a refund after one (1) defect - its that easy! No need to send any links as they will not change this fact.
Of course they *could* offer you a refund (it is their choice), but to check if this is possible Mike needs to know who you are --> he needs your customer- or ordernumber. Asking you for this information was his very first response on this thread:
If not done yet, please provide him with this information on this thread, via private message or via mail. This is the only way he can help you and check *if* a refund is possible.
Yes, hardware is expensive nowadys, but rushing out posts without providing essential informations will not help to solve your problem.
Edit, Mikes post was showing up seconds before mine, looks like he is already one step ahead.
Much to your dismay I read them all fully and twice.
You see.. we have different mindsets here. You keep talking about a law about distance trading. And here I will mention the following again. It is different trading socks, and sneakers etc to trading tech items that cause downtime and can be dangerous and cause harm. Once we clear that we are on the same page on this then we can take it further. You are right about the walls of text. But if we were on the same page there would be no need for them. They are still talking about house wiring, and if the unit was really a defect. So go figure. I did not rush out a post. I have never left a negative review or ever had any such argument in my life even when I was on the other side and I was the customer service agent/seller and the other person was a customer with totally crazy demands as well. I never had this.
They can keep faffing about the two replacements law ignoring the convenience of the customer as stated on EU papers, even thought downtime and the distance/special case should have been an exception to how to deal with this. I am not a repeat refund(er) or something. Yes there are people who do this very often. Also we are talking about a DOA item not something that was used for a while etc. Even during the first year of usage it is considered a defect by law.
Let's take the two replacement law and apply it here. Issue started since 24th of Dec! Item was sent back during the first days of January. I will receive the replacement at some point next week or early the one after the next week. For convenience let's call it next Friday the 16th of Feb. Let's say I did not order the other PSU. Downtime up to the first replacement 24Dec - 16th of Feb. This is already unacceptable but let's move on further. Considering that many people have reported that their replacements exhibited the same exact issue some straight away and some a few hours or days after they received their replacement. I will the median 2 day. 18th of Feb. I will ignore weekends to make it easier. Say on the 19th of Feb I open another RMA case. Next day I will have to send the first replacement back. Let's say it will take about 2 weeks (it takes more) we are on the first days of March. A couple of days for CK to go through the RMA process. Then they say it can take from 2 to 6 weeks for BQ to give them an answer. I will take the shortest time here of 2 weeks. So around 20th of March the second replacement will be sent from CK to me. Let's say I receive the item on 1st of April. We are at 3 months and a week of downtime. Then I might again have to send it back give another 3/4 weeks.. We are talking about May getting a refund and having no working system.
If I was based in Germany and the shipping would take 1/2 days and the whole process would take 2 weeks maximum then it is easier to deal with. But sadly for this case I am not there.
Many other retailers offer a refund to customers when they buy something else ahead of the RMA process. Well with this one it is not the case.
I do not know about you but I rely for a lot of things on my PC. I cannot have downtime. It is not for entertainment (maybe 5/10% of its use is) that someone can say ah it is ok I can be for 10 days without playing CS or WoW.
If it is down and I cannot finish uni work I am really in big trouble. I need a really stable system.
As I said I do not think Mike can help me and this is why I said let's end this here. Their management or whoever it is they decided to send me a replacement which is already on the way since Thursday morning.
I was just not comforatble with giving personal details about my orders considering the slight hostility I have faced here.
What difference could Mike make compared to the other guys at their RMA office?
We have exhausted the subject and I do not feel good about this whole argument here. It was really not needed. But no one can say that I did not try to accomodate Caseking by ordering another PSU from them even if I had to pay more money than buying it from somewhere else.
*last brick on this short wall. Enjoy your weekend guys.
Seriously, I already wrote that I *just* today finally found out who you are, after work I might add. It was basically a coincidence and only happened because of your lengthy phone call today. I already wrote that we are going to have a look at your case internally early next week, probably on Monday.
This is the second time (the first time you deleted it) that you're pointlessly threatening me with, well, 'speaking to the manager', right?
No one is talking to any manager. I am not a snitch.. in fact you should read the whole sentence. I do not want you or anyone else to get in trouble.
Bosses do not want to deal with stuff at that level. They pay people to do these jobs.
It is a cultural thing that you do not understand the way I used that. But you need to do better and not antagonize the customer.
The conversation here is at a philosophical level from the side of why can't a retailer be accomodating and you replied earlier that just because there is a long distance between you and a customer you cannot change your procedure and you do not care about someone's convenience. So you do not understand me and I do not understand you not being happy enough that I tried to rectify this whole mess by buying another PSU from your website while waiting for the the RMA to be processed.
We are not on the same page. It is life. It happens.
Some people have empathy some are robotic, we think different. (Mind you in some cases being robotic is a good thing. Not so in this one I think) As long as a law allows you do a bad thing then you say it is ok to do it. There might be value in it as to whatever value you find by doing so.. but there is zero virtue. Different philosophy. This value/virtue difference can be seen/found in so many things in our daily lives. I bought the new PSU from you to honor my initial purchase and for you to not to lose my custom (that was virtuous). You find value in sending a replacement out as long as you are ok with the law with complete disregard to the customer's needs. We could analyze the concept of a Shop too. What does a Shop do? It serves the needs of customers, by selling goods and services. The customer has a need and goes to a shop to fulfill that. It is not a very difficult concept to grasp. Sure the shop has a policy and laws are there to protect both and keep things fair. I do not see where I have not been fair to you.
Different worlds.
I do not understand why you are replying though. You have sent a replacement out. We are past a refund at this point in time.
What else could go different next week? You will try and fish the item from UPS? I guess that by Monday the item is already on its way. The guys on the phone went through this and had a look at my case and they said they have sent a replacement out.
I just do not understand what you are trying to get to. You are not trying to help me, you cannot help me probably. That is ok.
But you do always want to trigger a response and me to go through certain things again by you mentioning "supposed defects" and "house wiring" etc.
It feels like you play a game that you are working throughout the whole night on this.
I said let's stop. I do not want to waste my time more on this.
If you want to talk to me in person why don't you send me a private message? Or even call me.
I asked you to stop replying many times but you still do it. Don't you have other customers to take care of?
I will sort this out with BeQuiet hopefully. You could not help me. Whatever. We think in a different way. This whole thread should have been 3/4 messages max. You play psychological games and it is not on.
Why am I not upset with BeQuiet? Have you thought about that? They are the manufacturer. On top of having had loads and loads of their hardware with no issues ever, their customer service and tech people are extremely nice and helpful. Even by advising me to wait for soon to be released items in the past, by offering very clear techinical help to me and my friends. They are at the top.
Even if you never wanted to refund me there was never a need to antagonize me and trigger responses.
Can we agree to stop this now? If you want to contact me further do that on private message.
We are not enemies or anything like that.
Yeah that's why I think I know now who you are, but only because you apparently called again today and it took a while. I could've investigated this already more than a month ago. I am under the impression that you preferred to intentionally create some drama here instead.
I hate drama Mike. The very first day I posted in this thread I said it was a mistake to bring this here and we should talk on private messages. But you replied publicly so I replied publicly too.
Accusing me again that I do something like that with intentions? Come on. Please stop this behavior. I know where it stems from, from strictness etc. But I am a customer. There is a line you should not cross. And it has nothing to do with "the customer is always right" or "Karen-ing".
You just do not talk to customers like that. Fullstop. This attitude is what has caused this thread to be long. Stop it.
I have seen you replying in other threads and you can be a cool and funny person. Stick to that! In all situations. Friendly advise.
If you want and you can do it you can delete the thread. It serves no purpose at all. If you think I intentionally came here to cause drama you are very wrong.
Also please READ this reddit post one by one. And the comments on the youtube videos too.
People have received refunds from other places. I did not ask for something crazy.
If you continue to say this is anecdotal then I assume you just throw the dice when you decide what to buy and you never read reviews because they are anecdotal right?
The same reaason you have reviews on your website. They are anecdotal according to you but you still have them.
I do not know about you but I rely for a lot of things on my PC. I cannot have downtime. It is not for entertainment (maybe 5/10% of its use is) that someone can say ah it is ok I can be for 10 days without playing CS or WoW.
If it is down and I cannot finish uni work I am really in big trouble. I need a really stable system.
I kinda need one more to be honest but I am gonna wait for them to either drop in price again or get a second hand one.
Two other systems in our team have 2x 4090, and the rest are all 3090 (non Ti)
No, all consumer items are legally the same. Since PC hardware has particularly low profit margins in contrast to clothing, goodwill solutions in general are especially costly and therefore less likely to occur. All talk about "mindsets" is always just PR mumbojumbo.
"downtime" is something every buyer (international buyers most of all) of PC hardware must always expect and deal with since it's a natural part of assembling something like a PC system with individual components. It cannot be the seller of such components who is supposed to bear the costs for long-distance purchasing decisions of other people. And again, "inconvenience" is not a subject of German law for good reason.
And because it apparently needs spelling out: Whether your particular downtime or inconvenience is/was something for us to consider is something I was thus far unable to check, because you didn't identify yourself. At the very beginning I specifically wrote that I can only give generalised answers.
Yes, nobody ever questioned that, but as I already wrote countless times that such claims need to be verified first before we can decide anything and you seem eager to skip that verification part.
Of course we are. It should be rather obvious that vendors won't just take claimed faults / assertions as granted due to the large amount of false claims and fraud attempts. It's daily practice to verify the validity of every single claim because that is our legal right for good reason.
Considering the transportation distance, the actual RMA processing time is totally fine and within the scope of what is deemed legally reasonable even for national customers.
As I said I do not think Mike can help me and this is why I said let's end this here. Their management or whoever it is they decided to send me a replacement which is already on the way since Thursday morning.
Please do not attempt to, in posterior, deny the fact that your issue could've been addressed weeks ago. This is a forum for escalations and the entire thing is filled with 2nd or 3rd level support solutions I could provide. This is the whole purpose of our support forums. Our management only exceedingly rarely decides on how to proceed with individual RMA claims.
That really sounds like a valid and compelling reason to actively undermine a solution to the problem you have. Is this supposed to become a self-fulfilling prophecy?
This is a rhetoric figure like when the villain in a movie says to a character "i rEaLlY DoN'T WaNt tO HuRt yOu". Obviously repeatedly mentioning the possibility of complaining about an employee at the very top of the company is nothing but a veiled threat in order to scare that employee.
The conversation here is at a philosophical level from the side of why can't a retailer be accomodating and you replied earlier that just because there is a long distance between you and a customer you cannot change your procedure and you do not care about someone's convenience.
If you had identified yourself there would be no need for philosophical discussions since I specifically mentioned that I can only answer in a generalised way if I don't know who you are and therefore cannot check any goodwill solutions.
What else could go different next week? You will try and fish the item from UPS? I guess that by Monday the item is already on its way. The guys on the phone went through this and had a look at my case and they said they have sent a replacement out.
Of course, there is always a range of possibilities, theoretically. The fact that you didn't identify yourself contributed to this outcome and that it might be indeed to late now (and too costly) to deviate from the standard procedure. I was also unable to check if there has been a mistake or misunderstanding on our part in time.
As I mentioned before, you can always send me a PM or write an e-mail to me directly if you so choose, but I have to stick to the communications channel chosen by the customer. I am only available for non-verbal communication.
The very first day I posted in this thread I said it was a mistake to bring this here and we should talk on private messages. But you replied publicly so I replied publicly too.
If you create a lengthy initial public post like you did, you cannot quell a likewise public response from the company you criticised while still deliberately denying them from actually dealing with your case by hiding your identify for nonsensical reasons.
If you want and you can do it you can delete the thread. It serves no purpose at all. If you think I intentionally came here to cause drama you are very wrong.
I almost never delete threads. You can delete your messages if you want to do so. Supposedly having no purpose is not a requirement for keeping threads in a forum since them merely existing doesn't impact the servers or anything. Some of the weirder threads here still serve entertainment, documentational, archival or even educational purposes and have thousands of readers.
While we are not "other places", nobody said it was something crazy, but I also couldn't verify your assertions, was unable to check your RMA handling and therefore nobody could decide on anything.
If you continue to say this is anecdotal then I assume you just throw the dice when you decide what to buy and you never read reviews because they are anecdotal right?
You seem to misunderstand what I mean by 'anecdotal'. It was just part of the general by-the-law answer about claim verifications in order to explain the need for said verifications since a relatively small amount of alleged issues (unverified by the manufacturer) doesn't say much about the actual RMA quota of a product. Satisfied customers rarely leave positive reviews and almost never write anything in reddit threads about faulty products that only people having (sometimes not even related) issues with that product ever find. All this is only relevant because initially your wish to withdraw from the purchase relied on the possibly erroneous assumption of a serial fault, which is just unproven. This is why we would've had to check and take a look at this particular case and I never said that a goodwill refund is impossible because of that explanation, but I was unable to investigate or find out what Listan diagnosed, told us, offered us etc. because I didn't know who you are.
@admins, may I please ask you stop this thread. Everything is said. To be honest, I have never seen any similar thread with a distributor where the problem could have been resolved w/o thousands lines of text and with answers to questions since many months.
@Thread Starter: Fully understand your pain. I am mainly wondering about your way of communication + why are you blaming CK for a problem which is related to BQ and not CK. You could have already a solution since many months. OK, seems that you got a faulty product. This can happen. No reason for all your posts blaming CK and/or BQ. At the end it is all about "communication".
I will only try to answer as briefly as possible at this point.
No, all consumer items are legally the same. Since PC hardware has particularly low profit margins in contrast to clothing, goodwill solutions in general are especially costly and therefore less likely to occur. All talk about "mindsets" is always just PR mumbojumbo.
"downtime" is something every buyer (international buyers most of all) of PC hardware must always expect and deal with since it's a natural part of assembling something like a PC system with individual components. It cannot be the seller of such components who is supposed to bear the costs for long-distance purchasing decisions of other people. And again, "inconvenience" is not a subject of German law for good reason.
And because it apparently needs spelling out: Whether your particular downtime or inconvenience is/was something for us to consider is something I was thus far unable to check, because you didn't identify yourself. At the very beginning I specifically wrote that I can only give generalised answers.
Yes, nobody ever questioned that, but as I already wrote countless times that such claims need to be verified first before we can decide anything and you seem eager to skip that verification part.
Maybe we are, but you prevented me from finding out. I've never experienced behaviour like that before.
Of course we are. It should be rather obvious that vendors won't just take claimed faults / assertions as granted due to the large amount of false claims and fraud attempts. It's daily practice to verify the validity of every single claim because that is our legal right for good reason.
Considering the transportation distance, the actual RMA processing time is totally fine and within the scope of what is deemed legally reasonable even for national customers.
You are fantasising about a possible second RMA now before even testing the replacement unit?
Please do not attempt to, in posterior, deny the fact that your issue could've been addressed weeks ago. This is a forum for escalations and the entire thing is filled with 2nd or 3rd level support solutions I could provide. This is the whole purpose of our support forums. Our management only exceedingly rarely decides on how to proceed with individual RMA claims.
Well, possibly a lot and for that to happen I need to check your case. And for that to happen I need to know who a customer is.
That really sounds like a valid and compelling reason to actively undermine a solution to the problem you have. Is this supposed to become a self-fulfilling prophecy?
This is a rhetoric figure like when the villain in a movie says to a character "i rEaLlY DoN'T WaNt tO HuRt yOu". Obviously repeatedly mentioning the possibility of complaining about an employee at the very top of the company is nothing but a veiled threat in order to scare that employee.
If you had identified yourself there would be no need for philosophical discussions since I specifically mentioned that I can only answer in a generalised way if I don't know who you are and therefore cannot check any goodwill solutions.
And I was unable to verify that.
And I was unable to verify that.
Maybe we even are on the same page, you just never gave me the opportunity to find out.
I have zero empathy for theatre like it's happening in this thread.
I get paid for that.
And I could've checked if a refund is possible instead more than a month ago, but was unable to do so.
Of course, there is always a range of possibilities, theoretically. The fact that you didn't identify yourself contributed to this outcome and that it might be indeed to late now (and too costly) to deviate from the standard procedure. I was also unable to check if there has been a mistake or misunderstanding on our part in time.
Maybe, maybe not anymore. I was unable to check because I didn't know who you are.
You are the one writing these novels which require me to respond.
As I mentioned before, you can always send me a PM or write an e-mail to me directly if you so choose, but I have to stick to the communications channel chosen by the customer. I am only available for non-verbal communication.
No, it's only you at this point and as a company representative I am obligated to respond to everything that is publicly written here.
I fully agree.
I am having a hard time believing that.
If you create a lengthy initial public post like you did, you cannot quell a likewise public response from the company you criticised while still deliberately denying them from actually dealing with your case by hiding your identify for nonsensical reasons.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
I almost never delete threads. You can delete your messages if you want to do so. Supposedly having no purpose is not a requirement for keeping threads in a forum since them merely existing doesn't impact the servers or anything. Some of the weirder threads here still serve entertainment, documentational, archival or even educational purposes and have thousands of readers.
While we are not "other places", nobody said it was something crazy, but I also couldn't verify your assertions, was unable to check your RMA handling and therefore nobody could decide on anything.
You seem to misunderstand what I mean by 'anecdotal'. It was just part of the general by-the-law answer about claim verifications in order to explain the need for said verifications since a relatively small amount of alleged issues (unverified by the manufacturer) doesn't say much about the actual RMA quota of a product. Satisfied customers rarely leave positive reviews and almost never write anything in reddit threads about faulty products that only people having (sometimes not even related) issues with that product ever find. All this is only relevant because initially your wish to withdraw from the purchase relied on the possibly erroneous assumption of a serial fault, which is just unproven. This is why we would've had to check and take a look at this particular case and I never said that a goodwill refund is impossible because of that explanation, but I was unable to investigate or find out what Listan diagnosed, told us, offered us etc. because I didn't know who you are.
You need to learn how to read. So many assumptions. So much diverting.
You also seem to be clueless about what % of faults is too high in a given production/batch of an item. STICK to our situation of demanding a refund after I re-purchased another PSU to make it fair for both of us.
Do not divert the conversation to different subjects.
Also you totally disregarded the fact that I would still have to order a PSU as soon as possible, and if this was an one off case with this item I would just order the same one.
I wrote that but you disregarded it. It happens on most e-shops that they allow you to do this.
You did not send me a repaired unit.
You just try to abuse a law and profit from two sales just because you can.
You can mimimii all you like.
Many things in history were allowed by laws.. it does not mean they were right. This one is not right from your side in any way you see it.
If I wanted to throw fuel to the fire right now I would ask you what is your policy about COIL WHINE on GPUs especially when they need to be used in a low noise environment.
Also in which cases do you ever REFUND people if not in a case like this where the customer also replaced the initial purchase.
The reason the refund was not 100% possible in the beginning was because you did not know if the unit was defect and you could not promise it. But I was 100% sure it was defect so I proceeded to actually be able to use my system. Then BeQuiet declared the unit defect. And instead of you refunding me that purchase you try to profit from two sales.!
@admins, may I please ask you stop this thread. Everything is said. To be honest, I have never seen any similar thread with a distributor where the problem could have been resolved w/o thousands lines of text and with answers to questions since many months.
@Thread Starter: Fully understand your pain. I am mainly wondering about your way of communication + why are you blaming CK for a problem which is related to BQ and not CK. You could have already a solution since many months. OK, seems that you got a faulty product. This can happen. No reason for all your posts blaming CK and/or BQ. At the end it is all about "communication".
I bought the produc from the RETAILER! I tried to accomodate the RETAILER by buying a SECOND psu from THEM even if it was MORE EXPENSIVE at their website than another place I could have bought it from.
My way of communication has been nothing but perfect. Even if it was written slightly sloppy and not fully formal.
I had to dissect every single detail and after all this time and with the original unit being called a defect, I keep reading even a couple of days ago phrases such as "SUPPOSEDLY DEFECT" and "house wiring" and phrases such as "some countries". All fully unacceptable.
I do not understand what do you mean by MANY MONTHS!!! I sent the unit out a few days after the issue due to Xmas/NewYears.
In what way could I HAVE done something faster? If I was waiting for CK's idea of a replacement I would still not have a working system 2 months later!
If you do not see anything wrong with that why do you even reply? How can you side with a retailer that is absolutely in the wrong?
So you buy something it is DOA and you have to wait TWO months for the procedure? I do not think so.
Many other customers would have asked for a replacement to be sent before they even send out the defect product. Or to have a Delivery/Collection at the same time.
I have worked for years for a very big online retailer selling items way more expensive than PSUs and 4090s. I know what a retailer can and cannot and should not do.
Shafting a customer over a defect product with a known issue, when they were nice enough to order another item from your store to make their life easier and to honor their initial purchase when they did not even have to do this is something you SHOULD NEVER DO UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
This is just SPITEFUL.
They try extremely hard to find an answer for everything..
While things are extremely simple. Customer cannot wait for 2/2,5 months. We should care about the customer. He is 100% sure the item is a defect, it is a known issue that other people had too with their replacements as well.
He offered to buy another PSU to speed up the process to get his system running (many other customers would have DEMANDED AN IMMEDIATE SHIPPING OF ANOTHER PSU RIGHT THERE AND THEN!). He bought the PSU, he is just waiting for a refund on the defect.
I do not understand what part of such simple process did I make in anyway DIFFICULT FROM MY PART?
I did not have a crazy or difficult or one that would demand blind trust to a stranger in another country.
I bought another item to make my life easier and they made money again.
I would not be surprised if BQ offered them credit instead of a replacement, and they want to get rid of the stock passing the issues down the road to BQ, abusing a law, and not giving a dime about the customer's inconvenience.
And you instead of being appaled by this behavior, you try to find flaws on my communication?
Mike will blame solar flares or EMP testing in our area next, trying to find some excuse or law, instead of accepting that the unit was defect on arrival and there is nothing wrong with the wiring when there are countless at this moment even with videos online situations where people have the exact same experience that I had. And this is still stock circulating months after I had an issue. They expect me to wait 2+ months. And play a lottery with what I will get. And if that goes wrong again they will continue their replacement policy.
Nah! They are doing in on spite in my case. They try to make my life difficult on purpose.
That goes against rules that mention CUSTOMER'S CONVENIENCE.
If that is not messed up for you then what is?
It would be better if they started selling socks and underwear if they cannot meet the demands of their customers in this business environment they are in or even understand them.
It is not about the "customer being right" (or in many cases wrong), it is about being able to fulfill a customer's needs after they have been TRUSTED and PAID (in this occassion TWICE) about an item.
I personally feel tricked.
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In fact I am doing them a favor by wanting this thread to end here. I did not even want to cause any drama or make them look bad.
But when I was told "mm you know we cannot refund a DOA item 100%" I started having QUESTIONS that needed ANSWERS!
For the futurists, this customer service experience over this issue feels like dealing with a badly programmed AI in the near future.
Badly programmed = not efficient. (Tiny small term "loss"-in our case they do not even have a loss vs a preference of multiples of this loss in the long term by losing at least one customer, the original buyer).
Oh and I DID NOT EVEN REQUEST FREE SHIPPING ON THE SECOND PSU I BOUGHT!!!!! Go figure!
Mike : "And I could've checked if a refund is possible instead more than a month ago, but was unable to do so."
We already discussed this a month ago. From the original post to this. And you kept denying a refund citing the same things again and again.
Even now that you have the verdict of the RMA investigation and you keep "denying the defect" calling it SUPPOSEDLY A DEFECT and keep mentioning HOUSE WIRING!
A refund is possible. And doable. And fair. Instead you antagonized me, I answered back because there is no way in hell you will ever be able to talk me over this.
You did not want to make an example of this with the customer getting what they want (it would be better if I used the word DESERVE).
Since this was for everyone to read you could have messaged me privately. (I could not message you privately, I tried, but being a new member the first few days I could not send you a pm.)
I did not post here to make you look bad.
You made yourselves look bad with how you dealt with this, expecting someone to be left out without a working system for 2/2,5 months with the risk of this duration even doubling, even though he was co operating to find the best possible solution for both, something you should be doing too.
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Dieser Thread ist schon jetzt legendär.
Ich gucke hier täglich rein, um zu sehen, ob er noch eine neue Tastatur von Caseking fordert, weil seine jetzt verschlissen ist.
Who is embarrasing here? You know most people outside your bubble have balls to fight for what is right. Try it some time.
Only an NPC would accept a return when they bought something else from the website to replace a DOA item.
You should see people's reactions on some other forum about this. See who is embarassing.
Dieser Thread ist schon jetzt legendär.
Ich gucke hier täglich rein, um zu sehen, ob er noch eine neue Tastatur von Caseking fordert, weil seine jetzt verschlissen ist.
So abiding to law is now abusing the law.
you should really go touch some grass and just let it be. Frankly you are embarrassing yourself with your childish attitude.
So abiding to law is now abusing the law.
you should really go touch some grass and just let it be. Frankly you are embarrassing yourself with your childish attitude.
Read about customer convenience on EU rules regarding online retail. They could issue a refund and everyone would be happy. They still get a sale from the second PSU.
I do not see anything childish being out of 409eu and having extreme inconvenience/downtime.
It gets even worse if BeQuiet offered them credit for my case instead of a replacement unit.
Childish right?
The only good thing so far is that we have all been up to now civil to each other.
But you are starting the personal attacks which is not right.
If goods are found to be faulty within the required timeframe, the buyer may, in the first instance, request that the item be repaired or replaced with a new product that is free from defects. The seller must bear any costs associated with these remedies, e.g. for materials or transportation of the goods.
The buyer should grant the seller a reasonable time period in which to complete any repair work or deliver a new product that is free from defects. If the seller fails to meet their obligations within the agreed period, the buyer may request the purchase price be reduced or withdraw from the contract. Likewise, the buyer has the right to these same remedies should attempts to repair the product prove unsuccessful on two occasions.
I never agreed to wait for 2+ months, and I never agreed to play the replacement game with possibly each subsequent replacement exhibiting the same issue.
IT IS NOT REASONABLE TO WAIT FOR 2/2.5 MONTHS WITHOUT A WORKING SYSTEM FOR AN ITEM RECEIVED DOA!
Due to distance it is not a reasonable amount of time to rectify this not also to mention replacements exhibiting the same issue and people still buying these facing the same issues up until 2 weeks ago *youtube video above.
I bought another PSU from the same seller as to reduce the downtime so I have no need for replacement.
What is childish about asking for a refund and why is so difficult for CK to refund me when I bought something else for them.
They were aware that I bought another PSU from them.
yes I am a paid bot beep boop
just order your stuff locally next time if its so critical to not have down time blip
also, redundancy is a thing. good thing you now have 2 psus
brrrr loading....
//transmission ended
//invoicing EUR 22,34
