[Sammelthread] AMD K7 - Sockel A (462)

[Sparksnl]

Strange indeed. I actually have a ”real” Tb 2800+.
Looks like this could be a high bin. Did you test OC results?

 

[Strikeeagle1977]

Also der Palomino-Keramik-Duron ist leider tot. Will den wer als seltenes Anschauungsobjekt haben?

Er wäre in der Gesellschaft der Morgans und Palominos bei mir gut aufgehoben, die liegen alle zumeist nur im Tray rum.

Außerdem kann ich so ja noch etwas dazulernen

 

[Sparksnl]

So, I have 3 new Athlon XP-m 2600+ in. The 2 most interesting results for boot tests, I have to retest the otherone.

CPU1: IQYHA 0348XPMW
2500MHz 1,600 v
2604MHz 1,675 v
2695MHz 1,775 v
2784MHz 1,975 v

CPU2: IQYHA 0351MPMW
2500MHz 1,600 v
2604MHz 1,650 v
2695MHz 1,750 v
2784MHz 1,850 v

Edit: That second cpu is better then my nr1 2800+ XP-m (my best cpu) at some speeds.

 

[digitalbath]

Edit: That second cpu is better then my nr1 2800+ XP-m (my best cpu) at some speeds.

In my eyes the second CPU is really good. Far better then mine. Are further (cold) tests in the schedule?

 

[Sparksnl]

Yes I want to do cold with both cpu’s.
I am just wondering which bios is best (NF7).

Edit: just not sure when.
Edit 2: Still waiting for 1 more cpu.

 

[digitalbath]

I am just wondering which bios is best (NF7).

Well that depends on your board. The current uploaded BIOSes are in the latest version.

Biosbude.de - your resource for bios mods and tools

Biosbude.de - your resource for bios mods and tools

biosbude.de

The best BIOSes should be with 619XT or ED or X1 romsips. The number behind (i.e. 619XT-2) is the WRDATA Delay value. BIOSes with a -2 are faster [some seconds in 32M] but will limit at ~257MHz FSB and the CPU will probably need more Vcore. The BIOSes with a -3 is the default value we often use. This will not limit in FSB clock. EB romsip BIOSes and _2T BIOSes should be the slowest.
You can also try the romsip preset Option in the BIOS ["DFI 1/21", "custom 3"...]

 

[Tzk]

I second that. ED or X1 is they way to go. Use 2x256mb BH-5 sticks and try to run them at Trc 9, Trfc 12 and with the lowest Alphatimings possible. You'll be limited at 257-263Mhz (at most). If you choose a higher multi (>9), so for example 10 to 14, you'll probably have to lower the FSB to ~250-255Mhz.

Also very nice cpus. I thought about buying all three from Eric, but hesitated a bit too long and they were gone. If you can, try them on ambient cooling. I expect the two above to pass 32M at 2700Mhz and reasonable volts easily. Probably also 1.65V 2500Mhz 32M.

 

[Sparksnl]

I noticed before that max FSB was lower on cold. So that is why I asked. Maybe I should flash a few on different chips and swap on cold on my SS to know which is best. I am currently running ED.

I thought that they were (too) expensive, but then agian… These batches don’t come along that much so I decided to buy (and sell 2 FX).

Edit: I will see what I can do about PI.

 

[Tzk]

Well, offerings like these have become very rare. So it's not about the price, but about the chance to buy them at all...

Regarding the FSB, i believe it is not the temperature, but the higher multi which holds you back on FSB. I noticed that even on ambient i can't hit the same FSB on multi 8/9 or 10/10.5x. Also the FSB timings are the same for multi 12.5x and above. So even if the timings are optimal for 12.5x they might not be for 13x or 14x which is a common choice on golden chips when running cold (3400-3600Mhz 1M).

Also testing fsb timings at these clocks is hard, who wants to abuse a good chip for hours just to gain a few mhz of fsb...

I mean, this is still insane:

I.nfraR.ed`s SuperPi - 1M score: 29 sec 703 ms with a Athlon XP-M 2500+ (Barton)

The Athlon XP-M 2500+ (Barton) @ 3581MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the SuperPi - 1M benchmark. I.nfraR.edranks #null worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

I.nfraR.ed`s SuperPi - 32M score: 26 min 34 sec 773 ms with a Athlon XP-M 2500+ (Barton)

The Athlon XP-M 2500+ (Barton) @ 3508MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the SuperPi - 32M benchmark. I.nfraR.edranks #null worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Even 2900Mhz 1M on ambient and <2V... Truly a golden chip.

 

[Sparksnl]

I noticed that he can do a high FSB on high speeds. I am not sure how he did that. Because my chips won’t so far.
Yes, 2900MHz <2v on ambiant is truly great. I can’t even boot 2900MHz.

My chips from back then could…

 

[Tzk]

It's all about silicon quality of the chipset. He has a board which valids at 295Mhz with only modded bios, that's in itself a great achievement and one of the better boards. A bit of perspective:
My Ultra B barely manages to run 250Mhz through 32M, but valids 289Mhz. My A7N8X ran 270Mhz 3D stable (loose) or 263Mhz (tight) on 8x/9x and validated at 294Mhz. Now, raiden and Sandman got boards which validated at 303 and 304MHz. I suspect these boards can run 260+Mhz on 10x or 11x multi.

I've yet to test my Shuttle AN35N which also valids 294 on first try.

 

[Sparksnl]

Ok so I need a board with high fsb on air to be able to run high fsb on cold?

And then I need an XT or ED bios with -3 to test for max fab of my boards?

Edit: what does this romsip do?
romsip preset Option in the BIOS ["DFI 1/21", "custom 3"...]

Edit 2: I still have
- 6x NF7
- 2x AN7
- 2x Asus A7N8X
- DFI Ultra A and Ultra B
- MSI K7N2 Dela-L
- Epox 8RDA 3+ Pro
- 2x Epox 8RDA 6+ Pro
- Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro 2

There should be one board with proper fsb?

 

[digitalbath]

There should be one board with proper fsb?

In theory, it depends on the bin of the NF2 chipset. Somewhere ending 2003 and beginning 2004 should be good. In my opinion, the voltage supply is also important. Boards like NF7, AN7, A7N8X, DFI and the Epox boards should have a better voltage regulation then the rest.
So I would start to bin the Abit, the ASUS and the Epox boards. You could bin them like @Tzk does. A simple max FSB validation with the tool from Infrared. It is simple and fast. Use a Multi of 6 and a FSB : DIMM divider of 6/4 and let it run. Important is to deactivate APIC in BIOS!!!! [not ACPI]

Edit: what does this romsip do?
romsip preset Option in the BIOS ["DFI 1/21", "custom 3"...]

This presets change the Memory Controller timings after the System start. They influence the max FSB clocks. You can find these values also in the tweaker:

 

[Tzk]

what does this romsip do?

Let me explain

As you've probably benched newer Intel sockets like 775 before, you're familiar with fsb straps or boot straps, right? It's basically the same for the nforce2. Nvidia loads certain ram and fsb timings depending of the currently applied multiplier and the stock FSB of the cpu. Now, what we do is:
First, we're able to apply all the same timing tables for every cpu, regardless of the stock fsb. That's called soft L12 mod (L12 bridges on the cpu determine its stock FSB).
Secondly we're able to apply custom timing tables for every multiplier and fsb. That's why our mod bios got different names. For example the -ED bios got the "ED" timing table, the X1 got "X1" and so on. These are just names for the whole tables, mostly because someone named them like this in the past.

And thirly we're able to further mix those tables up by applying some timings after boot. That's what the romsip option inside the bios is for. So you can basically have ED tables with some DFI 1/21 bios timings mixed in.

Just make sure to remember that those timings are currently applied AFTER post, right before OS boot. So you always want to start with lower fsb and raise it after boot. Also remember that there seems a more or less hard fsb wall wenn running CL2-2-2-X at around 265Mhz. Currently the only way known to pass this is relaxed timings like 2.5-3-3 and loose alphatimings.

You could bin them like @Tzk does. A simple max FSB validation with the tool from Infrared. It is simple and fast. Use a Multi of 6 and a FSB : DIMM divider of 6/4 and let it run. Important is to deactivate APIC in BIOS!!!! [not ACPI]

Yep. I found that the max. valid will more or less correlate with the max. 1:1 (sync) clock. Here's what i currently do:

- boot 220Mhz or below (>220 won't post).
- use 6:4 divider
- use ED sips with either custom#3, DFI 1/21, DFI 12/18 or DFI 12/31 preset in bios. Try which works best for you and stick with it.
- multi 6. do not use multi 7 or 7.5x.
- Vdd isn't that important, i usually try to use about 1.75 to 1.8V. Note that some chipsets don't like 1.75V+.
- make sure to have a backup of your 2D bench OS at hand, as running many valids may (or will) currupt it.

Use the newest tweaker by infrared, it's got an auto-validator which raises fsb and valids fully automated Love that feature!
I usually document the full settings on my valids, so have a look at these on HWBot.

Note: These settings are the ones which gave me the highest fsb for valids and which run very well in general. They're not neccessarily the fastest for benching!
Example valid:

Tzk`s Reference Frequency score: 294.6 MHz with a A7N8X Deluxe (rev2.0)

The A7N8X Deluxe (rev2.0) @ 294.6MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Reference Frequency benchmark. Tzkranks #null worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

 

[Sparksnl]

Thanks all, I will have to look for the latest NForce2 tweaker then because I think v1.1 beta 18 is my latest.
IS 19 the lastest (does anyone have a download link?).

Those AN7 boards I will probably not use. I should burn and destroy those. They are worthless for OC. They are completely unstable in all they do.
They just irritate me. I did not use them for years and still I get negative energy just by thinking of them...
Edit: 1 did have a high FSB, but that is last resort if all other fail.

 

[Tzk]

(does anyone have a download link?).

Sure, it's on github and yes Beta 18 is the latest. Iirc there was 19, but not sure what the changes were... Nothing too serious at least.

Releases · irusanov/nForce2-xtreme-tweaker-vcl

Contribute to irusanov/nForce2-xtreme-tweaker-vcl development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[Sparksnl]

Ah thanks, I thought 19 was later. That was why I asked. But maybe it is a not Ok version or so?

Edit: I don't see a custom 3 in my Epox BIOS Digitalbath ED). I should see it in my Romsips table option?

 

[Tzk]

Found beta19-mod. Changelog for beta19 should be:

Set Burst Mode and Drive Strength Mode for DIMM A1 and B1 as well​

Thanks digitalbath @ HardwareLUXX for finding that bug

And the "mod" removes the lower FSB limit and extends the range below 50Mhz, so you can try downclocking as far as the chipset won't crash.

Link:

Most Miserable Frequency Reached with a Duron

Hi, so here is my attempt to attack the CPU-Z Validator World Record, this one -> "[LULZ] Most Miserable Frequency Reached with a Duron". https://valid.x86.fr/records.html So here it was when I started a week ago: My first approach was to collect some data: 1. cheapie 307 MHz (8 * 38.38 MHz); ...

community.hwbot.org

Also uploaded beta19-mod to biosbude:

Biosbude.de - your resource for bios mods and tools

Biosbude.de - your resource for bios mods and tools

biosbude.de

 

[Sparksnl]

Hmm I tries running a 256MB TCCD (Corsair) on my 8RDA6+ Pro. Well, if you want random resets and a unstable system. You can't go wrong using them...

@digitalbath : No APIC feature in Epox bios is present.

 

[Tzk]

NF2 doesn’t like TCCD that much. Either stick to old BH-5, Infineon AT-6 or try Hynix 256mb BT-d43 or DT-D43.

Also stick to Single Rank sticks. So usually 256mb sticks. 512mb single rank (Infineon CE-5) does also work well with a bit of tweaking.

 

[Sparksnl]

Yes I figured I should try single rank. I picked a Hynix 256mb BT-D43 now.
I knew It was not optimal, but this is far from optimal.

Edit: Is this custom 3?

Edit 2: My Epox is still hard locked at 265/266MHz. I tried your settings @Tzk and @digitalbath ED BIOS setting DFI 1/12.

 

[Tzk]

My Epox is still hard locked at 265/266MHz.

Is this 1:1 (sync)? For valids you can try to loosen the Timings to CL3-4-4 and Vdimm to 2.8V. Also TRC and TRFC to 13/15 (stock) or even 14/16. Hynix isn’t great for performance anyways.

Still USB keyboard+mouse and APIC on might hold you back. Not sure if you can turn apic off when there’s no bios option…

 

[Sparksnl]

No was running 66% (4:6) and 3-4-4-11 1T (all of your timings from 294MHz run). I used an USB mouse and ps2 keyboard.

 

[digitalbath]

Edit: I don't see a custom 3 in my Epox BIOS Digitalbath ED). I should see it in my Romsips table option?

If it is a "A6" BIOS version, then yes. Its there but has a different name. Afaik Winbond or so.

@digitalbath : No APIC feature in Epox bios is present.

Ah, okay. Same as with my ASRock board. To solve it, you have to press F7 during Win XP installation when the blue screen appears. Then choose "Standard PC". It deaktivates ACPI (and APIC !) for the installation. I am not sure if you have to switch in BIOS ACPI aswell off. see my post #9.096

Edit: Is this custom 3?

No, these timings are not represented in the romsip presets in the BIOS. I used this values for my D65 romsips. I am still testing this timings. So far, they are not bad. You can also test it if you want. Just change the values in the tweaker to the values in the red box.
Custom 3 preset has only "22" and "44" values, see the marked values. The rest is unimportant.

Edit 2: My Epox is still hard locked at 265/266MHz. I tried your settings @Tzk and @digitalbath ED BIOS setting DFI 1/12.

known issue with APIC. The board hangs exactly at 265MHz after some seconds. Even if you use the automatic validation tool in the tweaker, the board will limit at ~270-275MHz.
I also use a PS2 keyboard and a USB mouse. This works if APIC is deaktivated. As written before, the key is then to deaktivate ACPI in Windows and BIOS, and install Win XP as "Standard PC". In windows XP the ACPI PC is tied to the APIC setting.

Good luck!

 

[Sparksnl]

I reinstalled my NF7 where I could deactivate APIC.

I cannot deactivate ACPI as well on my Epox board… But I will try and reinstall. I wanted to install a faster XP anyway.

Can there be a new version of 8rda6+ BIOS in time?

 

[digitalbath]

Can there be a new version of 8rda6+ BIOS in time?

You mean new modded version or new official releases? Finding official BIOSes isn't easy. There aren't many out there. The first place to look for me is:

EPoX/ProNiX EP-8RDA6+Pro

EPoX/ProNiX EP-8RDA6+Pro is a motherboard based on the Nvidia nForce2 Ultra 400 (MCP2-GB) chipset. Get specs, BIOS, documentation and more!

theretroweb.com

edit.
if you mean mod version, then I can do a newer version if you need.

 

[Sparksnl]

Yes I meant a new version of the mod bios. But no hurry here.

 

[Tzk]

32M

279MHz | 2,5-3-3-8 1T | 2,80v | 2x512 MB | Hynix H5DU5182ETR-E3C | Hynix ETR-E3C | NF2 | digitalbath | Link
270MHz | 2,0-2-2-5 1T | 3,50v | 2x256 MB | Infineon HYS64D32309GU-6-A | Infineon AT-6 | NF2 | digitalbath | Link

Uff, die Ergebnisse sind mal richtig krass. Ich bin gespannt was du gedreht hast, damit das möglich war...

Das Hynix Ergebnis ist schon ein Brett, insbesondere mit 2.5-3-3. Noch mehr erstaunt mich aber das andere, weil es mal eben 5Mhz oder der magischen Wand von 265Mhz liegt. Ist der Chipsatz von diesem AsRock so verdammt gut? Falls ja, dann mach doch bitte mal eine FSB Valid. Das Board muss eigentlich >295Mhz machen...

Und noch ein Gedanke zu den AT-6, eventuell geht mehr wenn du Tras etwas anhebst? Das hatte ich bei meinen Ballistix, das die 2-2-2-5/6 begrenzt haben, mit 2-2-2-9 ging plötzlich mehr. <60ns ist auch übel, habe ich bisher noch nicht gesehen.

Übrigens: Ich habe seit Ewigkeiten eine Suche für diese Hynix aktiv, die Dinger sind Einhörner.

 

[digitalbath]

Danke! Das Ergebnis mit den Hynix Riegeln hatte ich ja schon gezeigt. Ein paar seiten vorher. Das ergebnis mit den AT-6 hatte ich am Samstag gemacht. Mehr als die 270MHz ging da nicht. Auch nicht mit 2-2-2-11-14-18 und höheren Spannungen. Das maximale was damit möglich war ein halber Durchlauf bei 272MHz. Hier macht der Chipsatz zu. Ich bin trotzdem über das Ergebnis glücklich!
Das ASRock ist gut, aber da gibt es deutlich bessere. An die 300MHz boards kommt das nicht heran. Einen Vali bei 291MHz hatte ich mit dem board auchs schon.

digitalbath`s Reference Frequency score: 291.6 MHz with a K7NF2-RAID

The K7NF2-RAID @ 291.6MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Reference Frequency benchmark. digitalbathranks #null worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Ja die ETR Riegel wirst du schlecht finden Die findest du meist nur bei den Server Riegeln und dann auch für einen höheren Preis.

1 GB DDR-RAM 184-pin PC-3200U ECC-Memory CL3 'Smart Modular SG5722885, € 9,59

Artikelzustand: geprüfte Gebrauchtware mit Gewährleistung(Abbildungen können geringfügig abweichen)

ram-co-shop.de

1 GB DDR-RAM 184-pin PC-2700U ECC-Memory CL2.5 'Viking VR4CU287228ETK, € 8,99

Artikelzustand: geprüfte Gebrauchtware mit Gewährleistung(Abbildungen können geringfügig abweichen)

ram-co-shop.de

Cisco 15-9350-01 ASA5550 1GB Memory SMART SG5722885D8D0FOHE0 | eBay

Marke - Smart SKU - RAM2716.

www.ebay.de

512 MB DDR-RAM 184-pin PC-2700U ECC-Memory CL2.5 'Smart SG5726485D8D0CLHE0' | eBay

Error Correction ECC. Pins 184 Pin. Bus Type PC-2700. Manufacturer Smart Modular.

www.ebay.de

 

[Strikeeagle1977]

Ja die ETR Riegel wirst du schlecht finden Die findest du meist nur bei den Server Riegeln und dann auch für einen höheren Preis.

nach dcen Aktionen vonBschicht86, was die"Reparatur von RAm angeht", mache ich mir weniger sorgen gewisse Chips auf gewisse Platinen zu bekommen