[Sammelthread] AMD K7 - Sockel A (462)

[digitalbath]

Kann ich nachvollziehen. Meine Ballistix traue ich mich auch nicht zu verbauen. Ich würde die TCCD Riegel mal durchtesten. Da ist bestimmt ein Kit bei, dass sich auf das NF7 freut.

 

[Muzava]

Greetings from Portugal

I'm been following the post without registration and decided to post my Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe.
Also, I'm not a hardcore overclocker, it is jsut a hobby and this motherboard is from one of my retro projects.

I noticed that the 223+ Mhz FSB barrier is hard to pass in the Nforce2 and I saw that it is possible more with mods.

Motherboard: A7N8X-E Deluxe V1.01

Northbridge: 2004/28 A1

Southbridge: 2003/41 A4

This is my best Athlon XP right now, a Barton 2600+ (333) IQYHA.

FSB: 220 MHz, VCore: 1.8 V - RAM: 3-4-4-8 (For testing).

Note: for some reason the newer CPU-Z versions hardlock Windows XP with Athlon XPs...

 

[Tzk]

Greetings and Welcome!

I noticed that the 223+ Mhz FSB barrier is hard to pass in the Nforce2 and I saw that it is possible more with mods.

Yes. Possibly roadblocks in your setup:
1. your cpu is multiplier locked, so when raising fsb your cpu will also clock higher
2. Is a modbios with soft L12 mod installed? If not, then this might stop you from going higher.
3. The default chipset voltage is very low on A7N8X. If the above isn't stopping you, this will at around 225Mhz.

And last but not least, your cpu does already need 1.8V for 2.5ghz. Maybe it just stops scaling and hits a wall. Usually the scaling above 1.8V is very bad, you gain ~100-150Mhz when going from 1.8V to 1.95V or even less. I got cpus which pass 2500 at 1.8V and won't pass 2550 at 1.95V...

Note: for some reason the newer CPU-Z versions hardlock Windows XP with Athlon XPs...

Yes, this is known, new versions crash at 15% while loading. Try either the Vintage version or CPU-Z v1.59 or below. Or reinstall your XP, CPU-Z >v1.59 will then work again for some time... My bench XP can start v2.x flawlessly on XP and Athlon XP.

 

[digitalbath]

Greetings from Portugal

I'm been following the post without registration and decided to post my Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe.

Greetings and Welcome to this forum!
A nice board, that you have. I like the A7N8X-E Boards. So, thanks for sharing!

Keep in mind, that the default BIOSes might stop you from increasing the FSB value somewhere at 220MHz. For higher FSB clocks a mod BIOS is important. In your case the CPU is probably almost at its limit. Like Tzk wrote.

 

[Muzava]

Greetings and Welcome!

Yes. Possibly roadblocks in your setup:
1. your cpu is multiplier locked, so when raising fsb your cpu will also clock higher
2. Is a modbios with soft L12 mod installed? If not, then this might stop you from going higher.
3. The default chipset voltage is very low on A7N8X. If the above isn't stopping you, this will at around 225Mhz.

And last but not least, your cpu does already need 1.8V for 2.5ghz. Maybe it just stops scaling and hits a wall. Usually the scaling above 1.8V is very bad, you gain ~100-150Mhz when going from 1.8V to 1.95V or even less. I got cpus which pass 2500 at 1.8V and won't pass 2550 at 1.95V...

Yes, this is known, new versions crash at 15% while loading. Try either the Vintage version or CPU-Z v1.59 or below. Or reinstall your XP, CPU-Z >v1.59 will then work again for some time... My bench XP can start v2.x flawlessly on XP and Athlon XP.

Yes, unfortunately is a locked CPU still it gives a reasonable overclock for retro gaming project.

I haven't done any mods to motherboard, except the using the Uber bios (1013), but I have plans to mod this motherboard after I received a 2nd A7N8X-E as backup.
I need to try to raise the VChipset and see what happens.
Also, I'm using watercooling, because the temperature

Greetings and Welcome to this forum!
A nice board, that you have. I like the A7N8X-E Boards. So, thanks for sharing!

Keep in mind, that the default BIOSes might stop you from increasing the FSB value somewhere at 220MHz. For higher FSB clocks a mod BIOS is important. In your case the CPU is probably almost at its limit. Like Tzk wrote.

Thanks!
I haven't been looking online for a solution, but it seems it is a common problem... I will use the Vintage Edition and Everest Ultimate.


Everytime I see a cheap Barton, I try to buy to binning it! 😂 Last two I bought were two Semprom 3000+, but they are really hardlocked...

 

[Tzk]

except the using the Uber bios (1013),

Uber bios is the most basic bios one can use on Asus. If you prefer "old" mods from back in the day and you want to keep the fsb at or below 235MHz, then i'd go with Trats. It's quite fast per clock, has the L12 mod included (so you won't run into fsb issues with low stock fsb cpus (133/166)) and he even updated the SATA rom to 4.2.50. Usually this is enough for a bit of retro gaming. Link to Trats mods: https://biosbude.de/! BIOS VAULT/Asus/A7N8X-E Deluxe/Trats/

If you're feeling a bit more adventurous, then the mods made by @digitalbath are the right choice. You get completely new bios options (yes, we modded them into the bios), even newer sata rom (4.4.01) and romsips which are good for 250Mhz+ FSB, when the board is modded and the chipset has a decent silicon quality. I'd try either the ED55_A6 - it's a bit older. Or his newest 619XT_B3X. Link where many of his mods are uploaded: https://biosbude.de/! BIOS VAULT/Asus/A7N8X-E Deluxe/digitalbath/

EDIT:
Almost forgot. Even if some modded bios got the "chipset voltage" option, be aware that this option doesn't work at all. Asus simply didn't include this option in hardware, so it's useless.

Everytime I see a cheap Barton, I try to buy to binning it! 😂 Last two I bought were two Semprom 3000+, but they are really hardlocked...

If you're looking for "open" cpus, then buy some older ones:

Before week 30 almost all Tbred B and Barton cpus should be unlocked.
From week 30 to 40 some are locked and some aren't.
After week 40 almost all cpus are locked, except mobiles (XP-m) and Geode.

The bad news is, around week 45-47 AMD introduced some silicon optimizaton, that's why these cpus clock significantly better. So if you want a multi-unlocked and high clocking cpu, then you're stuck with mobile Bartons. And especially these that got the IQYHA and IDYHA stepping are hard to get and expensive.

 

[Sparksnl]

I have one cpu which is from 2004 or week 5x 2003 which is unlucked. But those exceptions are rare.

 

[Tzk]

I'd love to know which cpu and stepping that is...

 

[Sparksnl]

I searched it yesterday but could not find it. I know I posted it here somewhere.

 

[Muzava]

Uber bios is the most basic bios one can use on Asus. If you prefer "old" mods from back in the day and you want to keep the fsb at or below 235MHz, then i'd go with Trats. It's quite fast per clock, has the L12 mod included (so you won't run into fsb issues with low stock fsb cpus (133/166)) and he even updated the SATA rom to 4.2.50. Usually this is enough for a bit of retro gaming. Link to Trats mods: https://biosbude.de/! BIOS VAULT/Asus/A7N8X-E Deluxe/Trats/

If you're feeling a bit more adventurous, then the mods made by @digitalbath are the right choice. You get completely new bios options (yes, we modded them into the bios), even newer sata rom (4.4.01) and romsips which are good for 250Mhz+ FSB, when the board is modded and the chipset has a decent silicon quality. I'd try either the ED55_A6 - it's a bit older. Or his newest 619XT_B3X. Link where many of his mods are uploaded: https://biosbude.de/! BIOS VAULT/Asus/A7N8X-E Deluxe/digitalbath/

EDIT:
Almost forgot. Even if some modded bios got the "chipset voltage" option, be aware that this option doesn't work at all. Asus simply didn't include this option in hardware, so it's useless.


If you're looking for "open" cpus, then buy some older ones:

Before week 30 almost all Tbred B and Barton cpus should be unlocked.
From week 30 to 40 some are locked and some aren't.
After week 40 almost all cpus are locked, except mobiles (XP-m) and Geode.

The bad news is, around week 45-47 AMD introduced some silicon optimizaton, that's why these cpus clock significantly better. So if you want a multi-unlocked and high clocking cpu, then you're stuck with mobile Bartons. And especially these that got the IQYHA and IDYHA stepping are hard to get and expensive.

I will have a look on the Trats Bioses for "normal"!
Also, I have plans to use one of A7N8X-E to hardware mod to use cold water cooling to try squeeze more performance.

I have a few unlocked Athlon XP, including a early 3200+ E and a Mobile 2400+(and some T-Bred).

In the future I will post updates!

Thank you very much for the help.

 

[Sparksnl]

It took me a while to find myself a second Athlon XP-m 3000+. Untested

 

[Antinomy]

@auto660 so you want to replicate this adapter as I understand?
One thing to remind is that KT133 boards don't support A-XP so maybe this difference is what is preventing you from booting. Another thing is that Thunderbird CPUs were late and not all boards and BIOS versions might support them. So it's best to check TB support for Slot A and use TB socket A CPU. And even then they have different steppings AFAIR.
Just found this thread, looks very nice.

 

[Tzk]

One thing to remind is that KT133 boards don't support A-XP so maybe this difference is what is preventing you from booting.

Yes. I believe the push/pull and open drain config is what's holding him back. Either newer Athlon XP won't run with open drain or the old boards don't support push/pull. Either way this is probably the issue why they never released slotkets for slot A/socket 462.

 

[Antinomy]

Another interesting info about them:

Slot A Slotket Adapter

Nadat AMD had aangekondigd te willen overstappen van Slot A naar Socket A was het even wachten op de eerste slotkets zoals we die van Intel processoren kennen. Het duitste bedrijf NMC-PE is de eerste die met een AMD slotket op de markt komt.

tweakers.net

"We believe that it will give a solution for Irongate Boardbesitzer with high probability. Unfortunately we can deliver still no similar prognosis for KX133."

So it might be the same issue as with KT133. So it's better to try with 751 and with TB CPUs.

Socket A mobo's eind mei, converters wel mogelijk

KH Yeap van Ace's Hardware meldt dat begin juni mobo-fabrikanten hun Socket A plankjes zullen showen op de Taiwan International Computer Expo. Sommige zullen echter al eind deze maand beginnen met massa produktie.

tweakers.net

Slot A naar Socket A converter bestaat toch?

Ace's Hardware brengt ons het blije bericht dat er misschien toch binnenkort een Slot A -> Socket A converter op de markt komt! Eerder werd gemeld dat fabrikanten zich hier niet aan zouden wagen, omdat de kosten te hoog zouden zijn.

tweakers.net

Slot A to Socket A adapter were never released to the public due to problems with certain VIA based mainboards. At the time AMD changed it's processors back to a socketed version this adapter was made available to mainboard manufacturers to test current board designs to comply with the new CPU. During these tests problems were identified that lead to the point of not releasing the adapter to the public. Only tested OEM systems (containing preassembled mainboard, adapter and Socket A CPU) were sold. So you might find one of these rare systems containing Slot A adapters.

The converter was only available for system integrators during migration phase of AMD processors.These were only intended for testing purposes during transition time. That's why you won't find boards with dual socket configurations as you do for intel Slot 1 / Socket 370.

Possible solution:
OEM only & system integrators only versions of AMD K7 CPUs exist that come in Slot A format but have internally a LIF (low insertion force) Socket A carrying a Socket A CPU. This is a K7 Thunderbird in a Slot A package. So you might find one of these rare systems containing Slot A adapters.

During transition time AMD itself sold several Socket A CPU's packaged in Slot A (Thunderbird core / model 4). If you can get hold of one of these you've got what you want.
These processors can be identified by their CPU ID: 6-4-1 and 6-4-2
On top of the Slot case should be printed: "AMD-A650MTR51B C" and NOT "AMD-K7650MTR51B C"

 

[digitalbath]

One thing to remind is that KT133 boards don't support A-XP so maybe this difference is what is preventing you from booting.

This is where apperom's BIOS patcher helps. My KT133 works without problems with my Barton CPUs. The MSR register for changing Multi doesn't work though. The MSR support started with the KT133A chipset.

As far as I understand, we need an external device that streams the SIP protocol during the start to be able to set the Socket A CPU to the push-pull mode. Simmilar that Gigabyte did with their AMD751 board for SocketA. The AMD751 chipset uses only the open drain mode and the Socket A CPUs aren't able to work with the open drain mode.
I am unsure how the situation is for the KX133 chipset.

[Sammelthread] - Sockel-A (462) - AMD Athlon / XP / XP-M / MP

The BIOS for my MSI K7T Pro board has a "hidden" setting for Multis, but these seems not to work for my version. My plan is to build a FID switch like this one: link. My board works fine with Barton CPUs. It just need a patch from the BIOS pather to display the correct CPU. I also guess, that...

www.hardwareluxx.de

 

[Tzk]

Was gibt es eigentlich an NF2 U400 Boards?
Ein paar hab ich schon zusammen, aber es fehlt sicher noch was. Hier könnt ihr mir auf die Sprünge helfen, damit die Liste vollständiger wird Mein Wissensstand schaut (unsortiert) aktuell so aus:

Hersteller	Board	PCB Farbe	Slot Farbe
Albatron	KX18D Pro	blau	weiß/grün
AsRock	K7NF2-RAID	blau	weiß/blau
Gigabyte	GA-7NNXP und GA-7N400S	blau	"gigabunt"
MERCURY	KNU400X-L	blau	weiß/rot
QDI	K7N2S	blau	weiß
Shuttle	AN35-N Ultra	blau	weiß/blau
Asus	A7N8X-E Deluxe	braun/bronze	weiß/blau
Leadtek Winfast	K7NCR18D PRO	braun/bronze	weiß/lila
Shuttle	SN45GV2 / 3	braun/bronze	weiß/blau
Soltek	75FRN2	gold	gelb
Epox	8RDA3 / 8RDA6	grün	weiß/lila
Nvidia	Referenz Board	grün	weiß
ECS	N2U400-A	lila	weiß/blau
Abit	NF7 v2.0 / AN7	rot-orange	weiß
Biostar	M7NCD Pro	rot	weiß/blau
DFI	Infinity	rot	weiß/blau
MSI	K7N2 Delta-L	rot	weiß/lila
Aopen	AK79D	schwarz	weiß
Chaintech	Zenith 7NJS	schwarz	gelb
DFI	Lanparty Ultra B	schwarz	UV grün
Leadtek Winfast	K7NCR18D Pro2 Deluxe Limited Edition	schwarz	bunt
MSI	MSI K7N2 Delta2 LSR/FSR/Platinum	schwarz	bunt

 

[ItsFun]

Shuttle XPC SN45GV2/3 (Board-Name: Shuttle FN45, braun/bronze PCB, blaue Slots)

 

[Tzk]

Da hast du vollkommen recht. Das sn45 müsste gleichzeitig auch das einzige “kleine” NF2 U400 Board sein. Mir ist jedenfalls kein mATX oder gar ITX Board mit dem Ultra 400 bekannt. Biostar hat mATX im Programm, aber nur mit IGP und damit der alten NB mit Metalldeckel.

DFI hat unterhalb des Infinity auch noch Bronze/braune Budgetboards mit gleichem Layout.

Davon abgesehen habe ich oben nicht jedes Board in jeder Variante gelistet, sondern mich auf die Hersteller und PCB Farben beschränkt. sonst werden wir nicht mehr fertig…

 

[WMDK]

ABIT AN7

 

[Stangelator]

Soltek sl-75frn2

 

[digitalbath]

MSI K7N2 Delta2 LSR/FSR/Platinum

 

[MusicIsMyLife]

Das Leadtek Winfast K7NCR18D Pro2 Deluxe Limited Edition in schwarz/bunt fällt mir noch ein.

 

[Tzk]

Danke. Ich hab die Boards oben mal ergänzt und nach PCB Farbe sortiert. Aktuell habe ich damit 8 PCB Farben in der Liste:

blau
braun/bronze
gold
grün
lila
rot-orange (Abit)
rot
schwarz

Geht ja noch... Alle NF2 Boards sammeln zu wollen ist jedenfalls erstens richtig teuer und zweitens muss man erstmal alle Boards ran bekommen... Da sind schon ein paar sehr seltene dabei. Also lieber PCB Farben sammeln, das ist eher realistisch

schwarz, rot, rot-orange, lila, braun/bronze hab ich bereits. Fehlen blau, grün und gold ( ).

 

[bschicht86]

So, nun ist bei mir auch mein erster Mobile-Palomino im Keramik-Kleid aufgetaucht. Fundort: Schrottkonvolut

 

[Tzk]

Ich hab mal wieder da ne Frage:

Hat einer von euch mal versucht Asus A7N8X mit Cross Flash zu betreiben?

Was ich erfolgreich probiert habe:
1. V2.0 Deluxe bios mit 512kb Chip auf -X
2. V2.0 deluxe bios mit 512kb Can hip auf 4MBO

Kann man das -E Deluxe bios auf den normalen v2.0 brettern nutzen?

 

[R-998]

Ich hab mal wieder da ne Frage:

Hat einer von euch mal versucht Asus A7N8X mit Cross Flash zu betreiben?

Was ich erfolgreich probiert habe:
1. V2.0 Deluxe bios mit 512kb Chip auf -X
2. V2.0 deluxe bios mit 512kb Can hip auf 4MBO

Kann man das -E Deluxe bios auf den normalen v2.0 brettern nutzen?

Yes , i tried it all. All a7n8x series bioses works on a7n8x-x , but someone needed turn off "halt on errors" to skip POST screen and boot. Im stand at A7N8X Deluxe r2 bios because he works faster for me, but A7N8X-E D works fine too

 

[Rodario]

Hier mal wieder eins für die Liste:
ASUS A7N8X-X
Seriennummer : 3CMM7Z3809
Nordbridge : SPP 0340A1
Southbridge : MCP 0339A4

 

[Raiden Zero]

Hab mir auch mal wieder Nachschub bestellt. Mich reizt es einfach zu sehr da mal mit Dice/LN2 auf CPU und Speicher ordentlich zu Benchen.

Erstmal schauen, was die CPU so kann. 0351MPMW ist ja erstmal vielversprechend. 11.5 Multi wäre jedenfalls schon mal ziemlich perfekt. Mich irritiert bisher nur, dass CPU World für die LV Variante nur AQYFA und AQZFA listet.

Hat jemand hier schon mal einen der LV 2600er getestet?

 

[digitalbath]

Ich hatte noch keinen LV2600er. Vom Stepping her sollte AQYHA das zweitbeste Stepping sein. Vom Datum her kann da was brauchbares rauskommen. Denke nicht, dass es an die IQYHA CPUs dran kommt.
Lasse mich aber gerne überraschen. Viel Glück!

Von den specs her soll die CPU bei 1,5V / 1917MHz laufen.

 

[Raiden Zero]

Ja, grundsätzlich sollte da was gehen. Ich bin mir - nachdem ich jetzt doch schon einige AQYHA und IQYHA durch hab - nicht mehr so sicher, ob nicht das binnen nach Wochen mindestens genauso vielversprechend ist.
2.5/2.6GHz ist bei meinen solang es zwischen den beiden blieb sehr ausgeglichen.

Hab eher die Hoffnung auf 0351MPMW. Wird sicher nicht so gut wie mein „goldener“ IQYHA XP-M 2600+ 0351MPMW gehen, aber wenn er bis auf 100MHz ran kommt wär das top.

Edit: In diesem Sinne ist ein zweiter AQYHA 0351MPMW auch auf dem Weg zu mir. Das ist aber nur ein normaler AXDA2600DKV4D