Sparksnl
Enthusiast
I always start with Cinebench to get a quick idea. I can look at them.
[Sammelthread] AMD K7 - Sockel A (462)
- Ersteller ItsFun
- Erstellt am
digitalbath
Mr. Oldschool-Bios
@Sparksnl
Many thanks for testing. I see, you use DS 7 for your TCCD test. I mostly use DS 4 or 5 for TCCD. I guess that depends on dimm and board.
Your test looks good so far. My NF7 struggles with my TCCD dimms. I was able to make a 32M run at 2,5-3-3-8 / 245Mhz. I hope for more.
I also had to use slightly different register values (offset 48h 65 --->69, LPB uses this value ) to get a better stability.
When I find more time, I will create a new BIOS version with this value (version B2D).
Many thanks for testing. I see, you use DS 7 for your TCCD test. I mostly use DS 4 or 5 for TCCD. I guess that depends on dimm and board.
Your test looks good so far. My NF7 struggles with my TCCD dimms. I was able to make a 32M run at 2,5-3-3-8 / 245Mhz. I hope for more.
I also had to use slightly different register values (offset 48h 65 --->69, LPB uses this value ) to get a better stability.
When I find more time, I will create a new BIOS version with this value (version B2D).
Sparksnl
Enthusiast
I did not have much time to check which DS value was most stable, but 7 seemed to be Ok so far. I had an hour to test today so this was it.
Many thanks for the effort and time.
Many thanks for the effort and time.
digitalbath
Mr. Oldschool-Bios
Every test will help us.I did some max validation tests with my other NF7-S and I came to the conclusion, that the register tweaks can help to get a better score. The values from B2C did the best job for me. I used a single Elixir 1GB dimm for the validation.
Sparksnl
Enthusiast
Someday I should bin my 10+ nf7 with the new bios files.
The Sandman
Urgestein
Again; would be awesome 
guess my NF7 is just a few pencil strokes away from becoming another dead legend...
guess my NF7 is just a few pencil strokes away from becoming another dead legend...
I have had nothing but frustration so far with this.
Back in the day, I had an ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe with an XP-M 2600+ @2.5 Ghz under a Revoltec Avalance II cooler.
So when I got a little bored earlier this year, I attempted to build myself a nice retro machine and bought an Abit NF7-S v2.0. My ATI Radeon 9600 Pro was a bit lackluster in games like Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, so I wanted an upgrade, but couldn't get my hands on a cheap 9700 or 9800 with 256MB, so I bought an ATI FireGL X1 256 instead. Basically the same card.
Turns out the Abit doesn't have an AGP Pro compatible slot.
Back to the bay, got myself the very same ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe, it has such a port.
But the FireGL X1 makes nothing but artifacts the second you turn on the computer! Video of these shenanigans:
Sorry for the shakycam, was quite mad at that moment.
I told the vendor it had arrived broken, so he sent me a second one - which does the exact same thing.
Now I'm 99% sure it's not both FireGL X1 cards that are defective, but the reason must be something else. And probably not any software, since the problem occurs even before you can enter BIOS.
And even if I somehow manage to resolve this (no idea how, though), I had to face another very real problem: cooling socket 462.
Both the Abit and Asus boards have tall capacitors very close to the socket, making some coolers incompatible.
Also it is genererally a problem to even find used coolers for the socket. All I find are square aluminum fin heatsinks with 80x80x25 fans at best.
Meanwhile on Socket 478 (same year of production): no problem getting something like a Scythe Orochi with 10 heatpipes and a 140mm cooler.
How do you guys cool your Athlon XPs?
BTW: my config:
Athlon XP 2800+ Barton
ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe BIOS 1013
2048MB DDR400 2.5 Dual Channel
120GB Samsung 840 Evo
Radeon 9600 Pro / ATI FireGL X1
Back in the day, I had an ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe with an XP-M 2600+ @2.5 Ghz under a Revoltec Avalance II cooler.
So when I got a little bored earlier this year, I attempted to build myself a nice retro machine and bought an Abit NF7-S v2.0. My ATI Radeon 9600 Pro was a bit lackluster in games like Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, so I wanted an upgrade, but couldn't get my hands on a cheap 9700 or 9800 with 256MB, so I bought an ATI FireGL X1 256 instead. Basically the same card.
Turns out the Abit doesn't have an AGP Pro compatible slot.
Back to the bay, got myself the very same ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe, it has such a port.
But the FireGL X1 makes nothing but artifacts the second you turn on the computer! Video of these shenanigans:
Sorry for the shakycam, was quite mad at that moment.
I told the vendor it had arrived broken, so he sent me a second one - which does the exact same thing.
Now I'm 99% sure it's not both FireGL X1 cards that are defective, but the reason must be something else. And probably not any software, since the problem occurs even before you can enter BIOS.
And even if I somehow manage to resolve this (no idea how, though), I had to face another very real problem: cooling socket 462.
Both the Abit and Asus boards have tall capacitors very close to the socket, making some coolers incompatible.
Also it is genererally a problem to even find used coolers for the socket. All I find are square aluminum fin heatsinks with 80x80x25 fans at best.
Meanwhile on Socket 478 (same year of production): no problem getting something like a Scythe Orochi with 10 heatpipes and a 140mm cooler.
How do you guys cool your Athlon XPs?
BTW: my config:
Athlon XP 2800+ Barton
ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe BIOS 1013
2048MB DDR400 2.5 Dual Channel
120GB Samsung 840 Evo
Radeon 9600 Pro / ATI FireGL X1
Zalman 7000 will fit onto the Asus, but will not fit on the NF7. The Zalman is able to handle my 2.7ghz xp-m at 1.85V just fine. Besides that i run watercooling or even a thermalright si-128se with a diy bracket. The ifx 14 won‘t fit though.
Regarding the Gpus, not sure why you run into issues. X800, x850 and 9800 pro should work on both boards, i‘ve run all cards on both boards in the past without issues. I‘ve not owned a fire GL.
Also make sure to run a very strong psu with a strong 5V rail on the asus, as it feeds the cpu off 5V. So 25A or more is recommended.
Regarding the Gpus, not sure why you run into issues. X800, x850 and 9800 pro should work on both boards, i‘ve run all cards on both boards in the past without issues. I‘ve not owned a fire GL.
Also make sure to run a very strong psu with a strong 5V rail on the asus, as it feeds the cpu off 5V. So 25A or more is recommended.
Hello PsyCrow,
I'm sorry, I can't tell you anything about the FireGL-problem.
The cooling topic:
Thermalright SLK 800 for "smaller" chips like the Thunderbird 1000 to 1333,
Thermalright SLK 900 on the XP-M @ 1,70 V, Board: Abit NF7
Zalman CNPS 7000 AlCu on XP-M @ 1,675 V, Board EPoX 8RDA3l
It's all a bit overpowered at the moment. These Coolers could also handle 1,80 V but I don't give it to them ;]
EDIT: as my previous speaker mentioned, the mounting is a little special sometimes, for e. g., I had to mod the brackets of the zalman to fit on the EPoX ...
I'm sorry, I can't tell you anything about the FireGL-problem.
The cooling topic:
Thermalright SLK 800 for "smaller" chips like the Thunderbird 1000 to 1333,
Thermalright SLK 900 on the XP-M @ 1,70 V, Board: Abit NF7
Zalman CNPS 7000 AlCu on XP-M @ 1,675 V, Board EPoX 8RDA3l
It's all a bit overpowered at the moment. These Coolers could also handle 1,80 V but I don't give it to them ;]
EDIT: as my previous speaker mentioned, the mounting is a little special sometimes, for e. g., I had to mod the brackets of the zalman to fit on the EPoX ...
I wanted to watercool it, too, since I have a lot of radiators just lying around. But I hardcore fail to build a 462 bracket. I tried soldering picture related onto a waterblock but apparently I am too stupid to get it to actually hold on to it (the innermost holes are for socket 462).
How did you mod your waterblock?
Anhänge
I still own a Alphacool Nexxxos XP bold block which i purchased 15 years ago. It was made for the 4 hole mount of socket A. The other block i have is a AnFi Tec Soleil which i designed a socket A bracket for which i got laser cut. I posted that mod a few times on the forums.
Some blocks got a dent in the middle which you can use to center the block on the cpu. No need to actually fix your diy backet to the block. The pressure will hold the block in place. I‘ve even used 10mm plywood as a makeshift mount for my aircoolers
Just a quick thought: what if your FireGL cards are made for Mac? Those cards afaik got a pc incompatible bios.
Some blocks got a dent in the middle which you can use to center the block on the cpu. No need to actually fix your diy backet to the block. The pressure will hold the block in place. I‘ve even used 10mm plywood as a makeshift mount for my aircoolers
Just a quick thought: what if your FireGL cards are made for Mac? Those cards afaik got a pc incompatible bios.
You, sir, might be a certified genius.
It shouldn't be a problem for me to flash a pc compatible BIOS onto the card, all I have to do is find one on the web, select onboard graphics as primary video output in the motherboards BIOS, then put the card in, flash the PC-compatible BIOS onto the card, then change the video output back to AGP graphics!
Will try that tomorrow and then report back in!
I‘m not sure that (or if) all cards are flashable to use them in either a mac or pc. Iirc some cards got a different pinout on the Slot, so make sure the card is actually flashable with a pc bios.
Maybe you can Boot with an additional pci Card and just use for example gpu-z to Check the Bios of the Fire GL?
I just got some brief knowledge on this topic, so better doublecheck everything before you accidentaly brick the cards.
Also this is very interesting:
forums.macrumors.com
Maybe you can Boot with an additional pci Card and just use for example gpu-z to Check the Bios of the Fire GL?
I just got some brief knowledge on this topic, so better doublecheck everything before you accidentaly brick the cards.
Also this is very interesting:
ATI FireGL X3 flashing issues
Hi, I bought a FireGL X3 because every ppc website/forum claims its compatible with mac after a proper bios reflash. Unfortunatly flashing doesn't work well for me... Pin 3 and Pin 11 are disabled. its a HP brand card with deviceid 4A 4D, just like this one...
forums.macrumors.com
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Well turns out I have neither an integrated GPU nor a PCI GPU, and obv. no second AGP slot.
So basically I will have to install an OS on a spare drive using my Radeon 9600 Pro, create a batch file that would flash the BIOS onto the VGA, make it autostart, then boot he PC with the FireGL card and spare drive.
I use the spare drive so I can unplug it afterwards, in order not to accidentally flash other cards with the FireGL BIOS.
So basically I will have to install an OS on a spare drive using my Radeon 9600 Pro, create a batch file that would flash the BIOS onto the VGA, make it autostart, then boot he PC with the FireGL card and spare drive.
I use the spare drive so I can unplug it afterwards, in order not to accidentally flash other cards with the FireGL BIOS.
für die nf2-Liste:
Asus A7N8X Deluxe v2.00 Board 11
Northbridge: 0309 A1 SPP
Southbridge: 0309 A4 MCP-T
Seriennummer: 34ZG0A1956
Asus A7N8X Deluxe v2.00 Board 11
Northbridge: 0309 A1 SPP
Southbridge: 0309 A4 MCP-T
Seriennummer: 34ZG0A1956
Okay. So in the meantime I tried disabling AGP 8X support and AGP FastWrite in BIOS, to no avail.
I then attempted to flash another VBIOS onto the card using a FreeDOS USB StickÄs autoexec.bat and the command amdvbflash -p 0 firegl.rom -fp -fa -fv -reboot (which should tell the tool to flash adapter 0 with vbios firegl.rom, ignoring BIOS p/n check, ignoring already-programmed check, ignoring newer BIOS version check, then rebooting - nothing happened.
Could be just me fcking up the flash process though, I can't tell because I get no video output except for the FireGL's colorful garbage.
I tried applying pressure to the GPU in case it needs reballing, and cleaning the AGP socket, too.
Beginning to despair, here. Won't get nearly as powerful an authentic 2002 or 2003 card at this price point
I then attempted to flash another VBIOS onto the card using a FreeDOS USB StickÄs autoexec.bat and the command amdvbflash -p 0 firegl.rom -fp -fa -fv -reboot (which should tell the tool to flash adapter 0 with vbios firegl.rom, ignoring BIOS p/n check, ignoring already-programmed check, ignoring newer BIOS version check, then rebooting - nothing happened.
Could be just me fcking up the flash process though, I can't tell because I get no video output except for the FireGL's colorful garbage.
I tried applying pressure to the GPU in case it needs reballing, and cleaning the AGP socket, too.
Beginning to despair, here. Won't get nearly as powerful an authentic 2002 or 2003 card at this price point
digitalbath
Mr. Oldschool-Bios
Beginning to despair, here. Won't get nearly as powerful an authentic 2002 or 2003 card at this price point
understandable. As the most Radeon 9700/ 9800 cards are expensive, I would try to get a cheaper Medion 9800XXL / 9800XL card. Here in Germany they're less pricier then the other brands. Other solution could be buying a X1650 AGP card.
Sparksnl
Enthusiast
9800 pro for €20 maybe?
www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de
PC & Zubehör & Software gebraucht kaufen | kleinanzeigen.de
Kleinanzeigen: PC & Zubehör & Software gebraucht kaufen - Jetzt in Anklam finden oder inserieren! - kleinanzeigen.de
6600gt should be cheap and a bit faster than the 9800Pro. You can get it for about 30€ in germany. Depends where you‘re from i guess @PsyCrow. I noted that your sysinfo is in german, just to note, as you‘re new to this thread: the reason we talk in english from time to time is that we got some international members in here. If you‘re from germany, german is fine too 
Also a random pci gpu should be extra cheap, like below 10 bucks. Might also be an option.
Also a random pci gpu should be extra cheap, like below 10 bucks. Might also be an option.
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The Sandman
Urgestein
Tja... Karte wahrscheinlich futsch. Laufen würde sie scheinbar auf dem Asus:
hwbot.org
Im Vogons hatte auch einer wenig Glück.
www.vogons.org
Wird sich über die Jahre zerlegt haben :/
Falls du das Projekt weiter verfolgen willst, gibt es hier eine Anleitung, wie man den Catalyst auf einer FireGL erzwingen kann:
Und noch mehr "Erfahrungswerte"
Schon beim Einlagern bzw. ungenutzt gestorben.
MeltedDuron`s 3DMark2000 score: 15395 marks with a FireGL X1-256
The FireGL X1-256 @ 351/288MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the 3DMark2000 benchmark. MeltedDuronranks #433 worldwide and #2 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.
hwbot.org
Anyone with an ATI FireGL X1 256M AGPPro? \ VOGONS
www.vogons.org
Falls du das Projekt weiter verfolgen willst, gibt es hier eine Anleitung, wie man den Catalyst auf einer FireGL erzwingen kann:
Force the Catalyst drivers to work on a FireGL - Rage3D Discussion Area
Discussion and technical support forum for ATIs lineup of professional level graphics cards
www.rage3d.com
Und noch mehr "Erfahrungswerte"
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digitalbath
Mr. Oldschool-Bios
So, ein paar BIOS Versionen zum rumspielen. Diese BIOS Verionen sind für das LP A und NF7 (v2).
Die jeweiligen Versionen unterscheiden sich nur durch den register offset 48h (b0d0f3) ---> B2B=66 --->B2C=65--->B2D=69--->B2E=75
die register tweaks vom B2D entpsprechen den Werten aus dem LPB. Mit diesen Werten liefen meine TCCD Riegel auf dem NF7 bisher besser als mit den anderen.
B2E ist eine Testversion. Ich kann mich nicht mehr genau daran erinnern wo ich den Wert 75 gesehen habe. Glaube Abit.
Die jeweiligen Versionen unterscheiden sich nur durch den register offset 48h (b0d0f3) ---> B2B=66 --->B2C=65--->B2D=69--->B2E=75
die register tweaks vom B2D entpsprechen den Werten aus dem LPB. Mit diesen Werten liefen meine TCCD Riegel auf dem NF7 bisher besser als mit den anderen.
B2E ist eine Testversion. Ich kann mich nicht mehr genau daran erinnern wo ich den Wert 75 gesehen habe. Glaube Abit.
Sparksnl
Enthusiast
It is like this: My German writing and talking is not that good. Reading is not a real big issue.just to note, as you‘re new to this thread: the reason we talk in english from time to time is that we got some international members in here. If you‘re from germany, german is fine too
Thanks!
I.nfraR.ed
Profi
- Mitglied seit
- 27.04.2020
- Beiträge
- 68
Und mein Deutsch ist auch nicht gut. I've learnt it in high school and then when I was working for a German software company (more than 12 years ago).
But I've never really used it since then.
Attached is the latest version of the tweaker. There was a stupid mistake which prevented writing main and alpha timings.
It also includes the new registers @digitalbath is testing.
But I've never really used it since then.
Attached is the latest version of the tweaker. There was a stupid mistake which prevented writing main and alpha timings.
It also includes the new registers @digitalbath is testing.
Sparksnl
Enthusiast
For the new BIOS files I did some boot tests on Lanparty A
I played a bit more with Drive Strenght this time but I still did not investigate a lot.
For all tests I used: 2x512MB TCCD (Corsair XL 538031-9) in Dual Channel @C2-4-4-7 1T
Settings from BIOS:
Romsip Custom 1
tRC: 12
tRFC: 14
tREF: 2560
DFI_LPA_2004_619XTR2_309_B2D_PCI
FSB/mem (1:1): 260MHz (260.5MHz) @1.60v and 1.70v
Drive Strenght: Auto (3 / 4) or 3
LPA_2004_619XTR2_309_B2E_PCI
FSB/mem (1:1): 259MHz (259.7MHz) @1.60v
FSB/mem (1:1): 262MHz (263MHz) @1.60v - Barely booting
Drive Strenght: Auto (3 / 4) or 4
Edit: Thanks for the new tool. I noticed Romsips were missing
Edit 2: I notice the Romsip option is gone now. Is that correct? (For the new tool)
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digitalbath
Mr. Oldschool-Bios
In the tweaker or in the BIOS?
If BIOS, then no. At least was not my intention. I only changed the option-Rom, not the BIOS setting.
The beta 18 tweaker does work for me. The romsip values are still available and do their job.
If BIOS, then no. At least was not my intention. I only changed the option-Rom, not the BIOS setting.
The beta 18 tweaker does work for me. The romsip values are still available and do their job.
Sparksnl
Enthusiast
For the tool/tweaker.
There was a pull down menu for option roms.
I.nfraR.ed
Profi
- Mitglied seit
- 27.04.2020
- Beiträge
- 68
That dropdown was not functional anyway. My initial idea was to have separate "romsip" profiles as a subset of a bigger profile and list them in that dropdown.
I've implemented the profiles functionality in a different way - you can choose which section to save/load, so it is still possible to save a "romsip" profile (a profile that contains just romsip values).
You can access that functionality from the File menu.
I will add a help content window in the future, which will explain the functions of the tweaker.
I've implemented the profiles functionality in a different way - you can choose which section to save/load, so it is still possible to save a "romsip" profile (a profile that contains just romsip values).
You can access that functionality from the File menu.
I will add a help content window in the future, which will explain the functions of the tweaker.
digitalbath
Mr. Oldschool-Bios
The parcel deliverer brought me my first AN7. Finally! The board's condition is fine. I've not found any damages. Missing the original NB Fan and the I/O shield though. I've paid way to much for my taste, but I'm glad, that I've got one in working condition. I've always wanted one.
for the "list"
for the "list"
Mit Codeanzeige. Gefällt mir. Nun muss es bei dir noch ordentliche Benchwerte bringen Ich bin mir sicher, das gelingt dir.
Ich bin mir sicher, das gelingt dir.
digitalbath
Mr. Oldschool-Bios
Etwas überrascht war ich, als ich das HW Monitoring gesehen habe. Es wird neben der Vdimm auch noch die dimm_vtt Spannung ausgelesen.Mit Codeanzeige. Gefällt mir. Nun muss es bei dir noch ordentliche Benchwerte bringen
Ich muss zuerst das BIOS überarbeiten und dem board noch neue caps gönnen. Wird aslo noch was dauern.
